Yes, Jesus meant TODAY in his message to the thief on the cross

[Frits]

2 hours ago, Locust said:

no , at least not when you think he did

Hello Locust,

I am convinced of what I have written, and I can explain it further using our Bible.

But if you think you can prove that I have written something that is unbiblical, please explain it including Bible verses.

[Locust]

4 hours ago, Frits said:

Hello Locust,

I am convinced of what I have written, and I can explain it further using our Bible.

But if you think you can prove that I have written something that is unbiblical, please explain it including Bible verses.

oh   I'm sure you could try ,yet hades   is really just the grave , the place we put the dead. I have seen different ones try to say Jesus did something when he was dead. dead means dead ,he could not do anything until his God made him live again.

To establish the identity of the “spirits in prison,” we must first consider the setting in which reference is made to them. Since mention is made of Noah’s days, we must examine events of that time for clues as to the identity of the “spirits in prison.” With the exception of Noah and his family, the human society was disobedient to God. Could it have been that the resurrected Jesus Christ preached to the spirits of those disobedient people? No. Why not? Because the Bible clearly shows that all conscious existence ends at death. For example, in Ecclesiastes we are told: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.”

The “spirits in prison” are, therefore, disobedient angels. When the global deluge began, they must have dematerialized the human bodies they had used.  God, however, did not permit them to regain the position they had abandoned in the heavens when coming to the earth. He put them under a restraint. As spirit persons they could not have been restrained in literal “pits” or with physical “bonds.” Nevertheless, they must have come under a form of confinement that was comparable to being put in pits and tied with bonds. 

So the combined evidence of the Scriptures makes it plain that the “spirits in prison” are rebellious angels. They are not the spirits of dead humans, Ecclesiastes we are told: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.......

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, Frits said:

Hello Locust,

I am convinced of what I have written, and I can explain it further using our Bible.

But if you think you can prove that I have written something that is unbiblical, please explain it including Bible verses.

Shabbat shalom, @Frits.

Why should anyone bother correcting someone who is above being taught? It's an exercise in futility.

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Locust said:

oh   I'm sure you could try ,yet hades   is really just the grave , the place we put the dead. I have seen different ones try to say Jesus did something when he was dead. dead means dead ,he could not do anything until his God made him live again.

To establish the identity of the “spirits in prison,” we must first consider the setting in which reference is made to them. Since mention is made of Noah’s days, we must examine events of that time for clues as to the identity of the “spirits in prison.” With the exception of Noah and his family, the human society was disobedient to God. Could it have been that the resurrected Jesus Christ preached to the spirits of those disobedient people? No. Why not? Because the Bible clearly shows that all conscious existence ends at death. For example, in Ecclesiastes we are told: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.”

The “spirits in prison” are, therefore, disobedient angels. When the global deluge began, they must have dematerialized the human bodies they had used.  God, however, did not permit them to regain the position they had abandoned in the heavens when coming to the earth. He put them under a restraint. As spirit persons they could not have been restrained in literal “pits” or with physical “bonds.” Nevertheless, they must have come under a form of confinement that was comparable to being put in pits and tied with bonds. 

So the combined evidence of the Scriptures makes it plain that the “spirits in prison” are rebellious angels. They are not the spirits of dead humans, Ecclesiastes we are told: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.......

Nothing from the Holy Scriptures. From Samuel and  John the Baptist and Abraham. 

The authors of Ecclesiastes were not Priests of the most High God. Were not his prophets and did not speak on his behalf.  

It's not part of the Jewish Bible. Peter teach against that. And all the disciples spoke against that. 

No one of the religions of the Jewish neighbors had these religious beliefs. Not even the Jews. Definitely not the Jews. Never the Jews. 

Edited April 19 by Your closest friendnt

[Luther]

On 3/26/2025 at 7:58 PM, Locust said:

ah how ever ,Jesus did not go any where that day . he was dead . and would be dead for a few days . truly I tell you today, right now , what you want is not what you will get. Jesus had to be so dead that only the most high God could put life back into Jesus.

I'm sorry but for the sake of clarity, Christ's body did not see any corruption in hell (the grave), being sinless. 

[Luther]

4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Nothing from the Holy Scriptures. From Samuel and  John the Baptist and Abraham. 

The authors of Ecclesiastes were not Priests of the most High God. Were not his prophets and did not speak on his behalf.  

It's not part of the Jewish Bible. Peter teach against that. And all the disciples spoke against that. 

No one of the religions of the Jewish neighbors had these religious beliefs. Not even the Jews. Definitely not the Jews. Never the Jews. 

You said: " No one of the religions of the Jewish neighbors had these religious beliefs. Not even the Jews. Definitely not the Jews. Never the Jews. "

So are you saying that the jews didn't have these beliefs? 🤣🤣🤣

[Your closest friendnt]

7 hours ago, Locust said:

Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished,

The author is making the distinction between the living who can experience those feelings as they go on living. One day they love at the same day something happens and they hate and become jealous and they can assault and kill. 

The author says those who have died they have found their peace from those problematic situations. They cannot compare their dinners with someone else. Or their laundry machine and or their perfumes. 

They cannot make children and kill the lover of their daughter. 

Do you see something else. 

 

Edited April 20 by Your closest friendnt

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Nothing from the Holy Scriptures. From Samuel and  John the Baptist and Abraham. 

Shalom, @Your closest friendst.

Of course, Shmuw'eel was a priest of YHWH and was responsible for anointing two kings of Israel, who each reigned over Israel for 40 years; thus, each of those kings, Sha'uwl and David, was a "maashiyach" or "messiah," translated as "christ." David even called Sha'uwl "the LORD'S anointed" on more than one occasion.

3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The authors of Ecclesiastes were not Priests of the most High God. Were not his prophets and did not speak on his behalf.  

The only human author we know for the book of Ecclesiastes ("leader of the Ekkleesia/the Congregation" of Israel) was the "Preacher," as he is sometimes called, Shlomoh or Solomon, the king of Israel. He was the KiNG, the One ANOINTED of YHWH, given YHWH'S wisdom freely! No excuses are necessary for the contents of that book; God gave us knowledge directly through him that we weren't given elsewhere in Scripture. He had the Ruwach haQadowsh (the Holy SPirit) upon him, and God spoke through him, just as He did through David his father!

The word "soul" has been CORRUPTED through the Greek influence of philosophy and mythology since before Yeeshuwa` was born! But, the Hebrew word נֶפֶשׁ or "nefesh" means "an air-breathing creature." It's really quite simple; it stems from the verb form, נָפַשׁ or "naafash," meaning "TO BREATHE!" The land-dwelling animals each was a "nefesh," just as Adam was, as were the sea-creatures that were called "great whales" or "sea monsters." All of them breathed air; therefore, all of them were "nafshiym" (the plural of "nefesh").

We first see the English word "soul" in Genesis 2:7, but the Hebrew word was first used in Genesis 1:20, 21, 24, and 30!

Adam was an "air-breathing creature," ... until he wasn't. When he died, he ceased to breathe air (imagine that!); thus, he ceased to be a "nefesh"; he ceased to be a "soul."

When he is resurrected, he will begin to breathe air again. He will become a "soul" again! It was the influece of the GREEKS that led to the idea that the "soul" was somehow separate from the "body!" This is why medical scientists cannot find any evidence for a "soul" in a human being. The human body IS the "soul" the "air-breathing creature!" 

3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

It's not part of the Jewish Bible. Peter teach against that. And all the disciples spoke against that. 

No one of the religions of the Jewish neighbors had these religious beliefs. Not even the Jews. Definitely not the Jews. Never the Jews. 

The word translated in the Old Testament as "hell" is the Hebrew word שְׁאוֹל or "sh'owl." The word means "asked about," and referred to the visitation of children to a grave site. They would "ask about" the loved one who passed away, and they would listen to the account of the person's life. This is what the Hebrew word means.

Just for one's information, it's related to the name, שָׁאוּל or "Shaa'uwl" transliterated into the English name "Saul" (through Greek). In this case, the name means "asked for." This is the name for the first king of Israel and also for "Saul of Tarsus," the Apostle Paul.

[Your closest friendnt]

58 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @Your closest friendst.

Of course, Shmuw'eel was a priest of YHWH and was responsible for anointing two kings of Israel, who each reigned over Israel for 40 years; thus, each of those kings, Sha'uwl and David, was a "maashiyach" or "messiah," translated as "christ." David even called Sha'uwl "the LORD'S anointed" on more than one occasion.

The only human author we know for the book of Ecclesiastes ("leader of the Ekkleesia/the Congregation" of Israel) was the "Preacher," as he is sometimes called, Shlomoh or Solomon, the king of Israel. He was the KiNG, the One ANOINTED of YHWH, given YHWH'S wisdom freely! No excuses are necessary for the contents of that book; God gave us knowledge directly through him that we weren't given elsewhere in Scripture. He had the Ruwach haQadowsh (the Holy SPirit) upon him, and God spoke through him, just as He did through David his father!

The word "soul" has been CORRUPTED through the Greek influence of philosophy and mythology since before Yeeshuwa` was born! But, the Hebrew word נֶפֶשׁ or "nefesh" means "an air-breathing creature." It's really quite simple; it stems from the verb form, נָפַשׁ or "naafash," meaning "TO BREATHE!" The land-dwelling animals each was a "nefesh," just as Adam was, as were the sea-creatures that were called "great whales" or "sea monsters." All of them breathed air; therefore, all of them were "nafshiym" (the plural of "nefesh").

We first see the English word "soul" in Genesis 2:7, but the Hebrew word was first used in Genesis 1:20, 21, 24, and 30!

Adam was an "air-breathing creature," ... until he wasn't. When he died, he ceased to breathe air (imagine that!); thus, he ceased to be a "nefesh"; he ceased to be a "soul."

When he is resurrected, he will begin to breathe air again. He will become a "soul" again! It was the influece of the GREEKS that led to the idea that the "soul" was somehow separate from the "body!" This is why medical scientists cannot find any evidence for a "soul" in a human being. The human body IS the "soul" the "air-breathing creature!" 

The word translated in the Old Testament as "hell" is the Hebrew word שְׁאוֹל or "sh'owl." The word means "asked about," and referred to the visitation of children to a grave site. They would "ask about" the loved one who passed away, and they would listen to the account of the person's life. This is what the Hebrew word means.

Just for one's information, it's related to the name, שָׁאוּל or "Shaa'uwl" transliterated into the English name "Saul" (through Greek). In this case, the name means "asked for." This is the name for the first king of Israel and also for "Saul of Tarsus," the Apostle Paul.

You did not understand what I posted. 

And you are referring to what  other people say like they talked on behalf of God.  

We are discussing scripture and what Jesus Christ said and words you have said that are contrary to the plain words Jesus said. 

Say something that Jesus said and he said again. Then we can discuss it. 

The people Jesus loved the most were the Greeks.

Who wanted to give Jesus a new country which would loved him and honor him. And it happened. And they died for him whole families all together. 

From all the people of the world Jesus choose them and sent his best disciples to them. He knew that they will welcome the good news of the Gospel. Because their religious beliefs at that time had prepared them and open the door to believe in the Good news. But still you do not understand what I am trying to say because you have said the wrong things about what they believed. 

Because of that Jesus sent his disciples to them. Because they were prime for the good news and they were very happy to hear. 

Edited April 20 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

On 3/9/2025 at 10:43 PM, Marston said:

Most people argue about where that comma in the verse is supposed to be. Let's forget about the comma. 

If it was Jesus's intention to communicate that the thief would be in his kingdom eventually in the future, he likely would have said "You will be with me in paradise", which of course, doesn't designate when.

However, Jesus used "TODAY" because that is exactly what he meant. Jesus told him "You'll be with me in paradise TODAY"!

Jesus knew what will happen to him that day which is the subject of the word He spoke when he said "today". Jesus knew what will happen the rest of the day.

Jesus foretold that He is the one from the three people who were crucified to die first. He knew what will happen to him at the time of his death. He said that earlier on another occasion. He had made that known to King David who knew what will happen to the promised Messiah. 

Abraham knew that the Messiah will die. Moses knew.