Be Careful, Church: The ‘Theological’ Arguments Against Israel Are Shamefully Wrong

[Luther]

2 hours ago, Indentured Servant said:

Most Christians don't know that the bloodline of Jacob occupies the most important aspects of the end times. 

The prophet Joel wrote about the return of all bloodline descendants of the man God named Israel from other nations. 

When He calls her back, she will be punished, as God promised, and then restored, as God promised, and she will receive her intended purpose, just as God promised.

God is quoted making this very specific promise, which has not come to pass, and John's Revelation speaks of the fulfillment this promise. (But then, if one does not understand scripture outside of their accepted narrative, it's essentially invisible to them.)

 

Sadly, I've encountered only a few individuals who actually know what Scripture says about God's ultimate promise is to Bloodline Israel.

Does anyone know what this specific promise is?

(An answer should be acknowledged with the specific scripture reference that actually answers the question. ...just asking nicely, please...)

 

You said: "The prophet Joel wrote about the return of all bloodline descendants of the man God named Israel from other nations. "

Wrong, wrong,  wrong. Blood lines are completely irrelevant in  God's plan of redemption. This is a doctrinal sickness that has pervaded the modern church. 

John 1:12-13 KJV

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

[13] Which were born, NOT OF BLOOD, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

NOT OF BLOOD. 

[Marilyn C]

30 minutes ago, FriendofJonathan said:

Hi MC.

Re: AND

The Greek kai also means 'even' or 'even so'.  So, Galatians 6:16 "... even so upon the Israel of God."  And since one of Paul's themes in the book Galatians is the faith of God's people, that all God's people are those of faith in Christ, all those of faith in Christ are children of Abraham, and the children of Abraham are Jews and Gentiles of faith in Christ.  Therefore the Israel of God are faithful Jews and faithful Gentiles that comprise the one and only bride and body of Christ.  There is no more partition between Jews and Gentiles. (Ephesians 2:14).  

`AND` depending on the context and also all of God`s word.

Now the Old Testament saints did not have faith in Christ for they did not know of Him. They `believed God for a city.`

`But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

We are the New Man while Israel is the bride. (Isa. 54: 5 & 6   Hos. 2: 19 & 20)

[NConly]

12 minutes ago, FriendofJonathan said:

The one question that many dispensationalists stumble over is: Who are God's New Covenant people? The Bible clearly tells us the answer: the New Covenant people are people of faith from every ethnicity, and Paul calls this NC people the Israel of God. 

As of 3-23-25 there are people from all over the world that believe in Jesus Christ by faith they are in the NC by the time you read this there will be more added into the NC after the Gentile rule is over AND before the end of this world ALL ISRAEL WILL BE IN THE NC.

[Indentured Servant]

39 minutes ago, Luther said:

Wrong, wrong,  wrong.

Scripture, Scripture, Scripture.

You dismiss scripture very quickly to preserve your narrative.

42 minutes ago, Luther said:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

This was not a promise to Israel; it is for those who are not Israel. God said He would allow in gentiles in order to make Israel jealous. Israel was never eliminated or changed.

My statements are  Scripture, not part of modern theology. You're fine with make your choice as to what to believe; He's made my choice for me, I rely on His words from Scripture, not what someone has told me His words say.

You've actually helped my point that Christians today depend more on theological, doctrinal, and denominational interpretations for their understanding, than actually reading God's Word... (You haven't read Joel's prophet, have you?)

[FriendofJonathan]

14 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Now the Old Testament saints did not have faith in Christ for they did not know of Him.

First of all, the gospel message was first preached by God Himself in the garden. (Genesis 3:15).  It wasn't all of the gospel message, but it began the unveiling of the gospel. 

The OT saints had faith in the good news promise that God made known in the garden (Gen. 3:15), and soon thereafter began to call upon the name of Lord (Genesis 4:26).

The prophets throughout the OT were given Theopneustos words to convey that the Savior and Redeemer was coming, and He would be called "Wonderful, Counselor,  The mighty God, the Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6), "the BRANCH ... and He shall build the temple of YHVH."  (Zechariah 6:12).  

That promised seed, the one of whom the prophets wrote, was finally revealed in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:16).  So, any OT saint that had faith in YHVH and in His promise to send the seed of the woman to crush the head of Satan, they had faith in Jesus Christ whether they knew Jesus Christ or not.   "Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."  (John 20:29).

Moreover, when Abraham was communing with God, Abraham was given the gospel message by God personally (Galatians 3:8).  Abraham thus knew the gospel and rejoiced to see Jesus's day, "and he saw it, and was glad." (John 8:56).

Job may not have commuted with Jesus Christ as Abraham did, but Job knew that his redeemer lives,  and that He will stand upon the earth in the latter day (Job 19:25).

And what is interesting here is that neither Adam nor the men in Genesis 4, nor Job, nor Abraham were Jews or children of Israel according to the flesh. But they are all counted as righteous through faith in YHVH, which is Father Son and Holy Spirit. 

The Bible tells us that salvation has always been by grace through faith in Jesus the Son of God. 

You might know this as it relates to the tetragramaton: YHVH.  יהוה. Paleo Hebrew assigns these words to the letters:  Yod- The Hand. Hey - Behold. Vav - The Spike. Hey - Behold. 

Behold the spike, behold the hand.  Not that different to what Jesus said to Thomas after the resurrection: "behold My hands..."  (John 20:27).

 

 

[FriendofJonathan]

26 minutes ago, NConly said:

As of 3-23-25 there are people from all over the world that believe in Jesus Christ by faith they are in the NC by the time you read this there will be more added into the NC after the Gentile rule is over AND before the end of this world ALL ISRAEL WILL BE IN THE NC.

Define what you mean by "ALL ISRAEL."  Please be specific. 

[Luther]

14 minutes ago, Indentured Servant said:

Scripture, Scripture, Scripture.

You dismiss scripture very quickly to preserve your narrative.

This was not a promise to Israel; it is for those who are not Israel. God said He would allow in gentiles in order to make Israel jealous. Israel was never eliminated or changed.

My statements are  Scripture, not part of modern theology. You're fine with make your choice as to what to believe; He's made my choice for me, I rely on His words from Scripture, not what someone has told me His words say.

You've actually helped my point that Christians today depend more on theological, doctrinal, and denominational interpretations for their understanding, than actually reading God's Word... (You haven't read Joel's prophet, have you?)

I disagree. I am a long time student of God's Word, and as a born-again Christian I am a caretaker and defender of the authority of scripture. The only blood that matters is the BLOOD OF THE LAMB, sacrificed for His chosen people, all who are born of the Spirit of God. 

Where in Joel please, so I can examine that. 

[Indentured Servant]

30 minutes ago, Luther said:

I disagree

When you said, "I disagree" in response to my overview of a specific scriptural text, I realized you hadn't even given any thoughts to actually reading scripture before telling me that I am wrong.

I accept your right to make such a decision before consulting God/God's Word. 

38 minutes ago, Luther said:

I am a long time student of God's Word, and as a born-again Christian I am a caretaker and defender of the authority of scripture

I've only been studying scripture, specifically prophecy, for only 37 years. I, too, am born again- June 5, 1997 at the age of 23. For the first 25-30 years, I lived by what the pulpit and the theologians told me what the Bible said. It became a traffic jam of everybody who thinks they have the right-of-way...

It wasn't until I abandoned the ever-changing theological narratives that I humbled myself enough to ask God Himself, to teach me, guide me through Scripture, interpret parables, visions, and dreams. 

45 minutes ago, Luther said:

Where in Joel please, so I can examine that. 

Joel contains a mere 3 chapters... I regularly read the entirety of Isaiah 2-3 times a month; the other Prophets, more often. I hope you can manage to find it without the help of someone you disagree with....

 

[Luther]

16 minutes ago, Indentured Servant said:

When you said, "I disagree" in response to my overview of a specific scriptural text, I realized you hadn't even given any thoughts to actually reading scripture before telling me that I am wrong.

I accept your right to make such a decision before consulting God/God's Word. 

I've only been studying scripture, specifically prophecy, for only 37 years. I, too, am born again- June 5, 1997 at the age of 23. For the first 25-30 years, I lived by what the pulpit and the theologians told me what the Bible said. It became a traffic jam of everybody who thinks they have the right-of-way...

It wasn't until I abandoned the ever-changing theological narratives that I humbled myself enough to ask God Himself, to teach me, guide me through Scripture, interpret parables, visions, and dreams. 

Joel contains a mere 3 chapters... I regularly read the entirety of Isaiah 2-3 times a month; the other Prophets, more often. I hope you can manage to find it without the help of someone you disagree with....

 

Joel 2:31-32 KJV

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Romans 10:12-13 KJV

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:39 KJV

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 2:20-21 KJV

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

[21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Yeah the remnant we read about in the OT and NT are all true believers in Christ who call upon the name of the Lord.

Keep in mind, the whole Bible is the revelation of God's salvation plan for His people, regardless of nationality. 

Look at Enos, way way back in Genesis. Now he's not an Israelite, but.....

Genesis 4:26 KJV

And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

WHOA. For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord. 

[Indentured Servant]

1 minute ago, Luther said:

Joel 2:31-32

You found what you wanted to find, yet completely avoided what I was referring to. 

It's a short book, brother. Keep reading, then read it again. Read it until you see what I was pointing out. 

Ask God to show you, seriously. He offered for us to ask Him personally for wisdom, knowledge, insight. 

It's there. You have to trust scripture, and not stop when you're satisfied with that which agrees with you.