Israel's new message to Gazans

[Luther]

1 hour ago, Debp said:

Arabs can work in Israel and even hold government offices.   Arabs have the same rights as Jews in Israel.  Some travel from Palestinian areas into Israel to work.   

The reason there are checkpoints is because of the suicide bombers that were often going into the Jewish areas to kill Jews!   So the checkpoints were established to prevent that happening.

If terrorists would stop killing Jews and live in peace, there would be no checkpoints and no war.   

P.S.  It's in the Hamas charter to kill Jews not only in Israel but worldwide.

 

I just don't think it is as cut and dry as that. Did you ever see a map of Palestine before 1948 and what Palestine looks like today? They practically have no land. It was never meant to be that way either.

I would say they have a righteous cause. And I don't believe that the terrorism is one-sided either. Taking over other people's land is an act of terrorism. And no one, no one can deny that. That's what Israel has done to these people.

It's easy for us to pontificate thousands of miles away.

 

[Debp]

1 hour ago, Luther said:

I just don't think it is as cut and dry as that. Did you ever see a map of Palestine before 1948 and what Palestine looks like today? They practically have no land. It was never meant to be that way either.

I would say they have a righteous cause. And I don't believe that the terrorism is one-sided either. Taking over other people's land is an act of terrorism. And no one, no one can deny that. That's what Israel has done to these people.

It's easy for us to pontificate thousands of miles away.

 

Palestinians were often offered a two State solution which they always have declined.    So Israel took the desert land instead and made it fertile.   They also bought land which they then cultivated.

Also, when the Jewish people were attacked by Arabs in wars, Israel gained land that way.   

 

The following is written by Jericho who is knowledgeable about the subject.

Palestinian self-determination
To say that Zionists have rejected Palestinian self-determination is disingenuous and ignores the 1917 Balfour Declaration, the 1937 Peel Commission plan, the 1947 UN Partition, the Lausanne Conference of 1949, 1978 Camp David Accords, 1991 Madrid Conference, 1993 Oslo Accords, 1997 Hebron Agreement, 1998 Wye River Memorandum, 1999 Sharm el-Sheikh Memorandum, 2000 Camp David Summit, the December 23 Clinton Parameter plans, 2001 Taba Summit, 2003 Road map for peace, 2005 Agreement on Movement and Access (AMA), 2007 Annapolis Conference. All of which have been rejected or not fulfilled by the Palestinian leadership. Regardless, today Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are under self-rule.

 

Land allotted to the Jews
While Arabs were always the majority, the area the UN allotted for the Jewish state had a significant Jewish population. Over 70 percent of the land for the proposed Jewish portion was not privately owned, but was state land that belonged to the British Mandate. More importantly it was land that nobody wanted, such as arid wastelands or swamplands. By 1947 60% of the remaining land partitioned for the Jews was the Negev Desert. It was the Jews who were largely responsible for restoring the land and creating communities and villages where none existed before. In 1901 the Jewish National Fund was formed to help restore the land of Israel. Swamps were drained, deserts were irrigated, and trees were planted.

    “They (Jews) paid high prices for the land, and in addition, they paid to certain occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay.” —Hope Simpson Report, 1930"

    “Of the total of 418,000 dunums (quarter-acres) acquired by Jews in Palestine [between 1878 and 1914], 58 percent was sold by non-Palestinian [Arab] absentee landlords and 36 percent by Palestinian absentee landlords, for a total of 94 percent.” —Palestinian-American historian Rashid Khalidi

    “Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought.” —Peel Commission Report, 1937

https://the-soapbox-blog.blogspot.com/2013/03/a-response-to-top-ten-myths-about.html

[Debp]

4 hours ago, Luther said:

Perhaps because  many of them seek revenge from all the years of living in an open air prison?

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/312278-i-thought-gaza-was-an-open-air-prison/

 

[Daniel whalen]

2 hours ago, Luther said:

I just don't think it is as cut and dry as that. Did you ever see a map of Palestine before 1948 and what Palestine looks like today? They practically have no land. It was never meant to be that way either.

I would say they have a righteous cause. And I don't believe that the terrorism is one-sided either. Taking over other people's land is an act of terrorism. And no one, no one can deny that. That's what Israel has done to these people.

It's easy for us to pontificate thousands of miles away.

 

I guess you would say Google is not reliable... that is were I got a lot of my info from 

Please (if you can explain) in about 630 Muslims decided to attach Israel and take land from them?

@Debp is very good!

She does her research everywhere with out fail 

I gladly tip my hat to you 

 

@Luther

You should listen to everything she says 

[Daniel whalen]

@Luther

I forget to say Palestine spends rocket's into Israel and Muslims live there but they don't care as long as Jews die...

You can say whatever you want but Hamas is a terrorists group no matter how you sliced it they are evil and can not be trusted 

[farouk]

20 minutes ago, Daniel whalen said:

@Luther

I forget to say Palestine spends rocket's into Israel and Muslims live there but they don't care as long as Jews die...

You can say whatever you want but Hamas is a terrorists group no matter how you sliced it they are evil and can not be trusted 

Hi @Daniel whalen So do you think your impressions of the Middle East were influenced by your service in Germany? and maybe would your views of the Middle East have been different if you had also been stationed someplace there instead or (in addiction)?

[Daniel whalen]

4 minutes ago, farouk said:

Hi @Daniel whalen So do you think your impressions of the Middle East were influenced by your service in Germany? and maybe would your views of the Middle East have been different if you had also been stationed someplace there instead or (in addiction)?

I got a lot of options in 10 grade when an Holocaust survivor gave a story about what she went through and lost a lot of her family to the Nazi's 

And Germany didn't come until I was 19 and seen Auschwitz first hand 

I had a lot of respect for the Jews and Israel when I was 11 year's old 

[farouk]

55 minutes ago, Daniel whalen said:

I got a lot of options in 10 grade when an Holocaust survivor gave a story about what she went through and lost a lot of her family to the Nazi's 

And Germany didn't come until I was 19 and seen Auschwitz first hand 

I had a lot of respect for the Jews and Israel when I was 11 year's old 

Thanks, @Daniel whalen.

[Luther]

2 hours ago, Debp said:

Palestinians were often offered a two State solution which they always have declined.    So Israel took the desert land instead and made it fertile.   They also bought land which they then cultivated.

Also, when the Jewish people were attacked by Arabs in wars, Israel gained land that way.   

 

The following is written by Jericho who is knowledgeable about the subject.

Palestinian self-determination
To say that Zionists have rejected Palestinian self-determination is disingenuous and ignores the 1917 Balfour Declaration, the 1937 Peel Commission plan, the 1947 UN Partition, the Lausanne Conference of 1949, 1978 Camp David Accords, 1991 Madrid Conference, 1993 Oslo Accords, 1997 Hebron Agreement, 1998 Wye River Memorandum, 1999 Sharm el-Sheikh Memorandum, 2000 Camp David Summit, the December 23 Clinton Parameter plans, 2001 Taba Summit, 2003 Road map for peace, 2005 Agreement on Movement and Access (AMA), 2007 Annapolis Conference. All of which have been rejected or not fulfilled by the Palestinian leadership. Regardless, today Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are under self-rule.

 

Land allotted to the Jews
While Arabs were always the majority, the area the UN allotted for the Jewish state had a significant Jewish population. Over 70 percent of the land for the proposed Jewish portion was not privately owned, but was state land that belonged to the British Mandate. More importantly it was land that nobody wanted, such as arid wastelands or swamplands. By 1947 60% of the remaining land partitioned for the Jews was the Negev Desert. It was the Jews who were largely responsible for restoring the land and creating communities and villages where none existed before. In 1901 the Jewish National Fund was formed to help restore the land of Israel. Swamps were drained, deserts were irrigated, and trees were planted.

    “They (Jews) paid high prices for the land, and in addition, they paid to certain occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay.” —Hope Simpson Report, 1930"

    “Of the total of 418,000 dunums (quarter-acres) acquired by Jews in Palestine [between 1878 and 1914], 58 percent was sold by non-Palestinian [Arab] absentee landlords and 36 percent by Palestinian absentee landlords, for a total of 94 percent.” —Palestinian-American historian Rashid Khalidi

    “Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought.” —Peel Commission Report, 1937

https://the-soapbox-blog.blogspot.com/2013/03/a-response-to-top-ten-myths-about.html

You have to remember the beginning how all this started. Palestine had been a land of peace and harmony to a high degree among different people and their religions for many centuries. In the early 20th century that started to change.

 

The Nakba did not start or end in 1948

(Published On 23 May 2017 Aljazeera)

"Every year on May 15, Palestinians around the world, numbering about 12.4 million, mark the Nakba, or “catastrophe”, referring to the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the near-total destruction of Palestinian society in 1948.

The Palestinian experience of dispossession and loss of a homeland is 69 years old this year.

On that day, the State of Israel came into being. The creation of Israel was a violent process that entailed the forced expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homeland to establish a Jewish-majority state, as per the aspirations of the Zionist movement.

Between 1947 and 1949, at least 750,000 Palestinians from a 1.9 million population were made refugees beyond the borders of the state. Zionist forces had taken more than 78 percent of historic Palestine, ethnically cleansed and destroyed about 530 villages and cities, and killed about 15,000 Palestinians in a series of mass atrocities, including more than 70 massacres......"

There are millions of people that are going through the actual experience as the rest of the world in many respects are basically helpless. I believe that many hearts and minds would change if they spent some time there with semitic Christian brothers or sisters whose families histories go as far back as the first century when God ended forever the kingdom of Judah ( as the ten tribes of Israel were scattered 800 years earlier).

Israel 1948 came into being as a political/ religious/ military movement with long thought out plans, and particular deals made with the governments during both world wars to facilitate their goals.

There is a ton of information that is not readily available on the details of what I am saying. It was not an organic, spontaneous kind of holy thing that just came together out of thin air.

 

 

 

[other one]

39 minutes ago, Luther said:

You have to remember the beginning how all this started. Palestine had been a land of peace and harmony to a high degree among different people and their religions for many centuries. In the early 20th century that started to change.

 

The Nakba did not start or end in 1948

(Published On 23 May 2017 Aljazeera)

"Every year on May 15, Palestinians around the world, numbering about 12.4 million, mark the Nakba, or “catastrophe”, referring to the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the near-total destruction of Palestinian society in 1948.

The Palestinian experience of dispossession and loss of a homeland is 69 years old this year.

On that day, the State of Israel came into being. The creation of Israel was a violent process that entailed the forced expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homeland to establish a Jewish-majority state, as per the aspirations of the Zionist movement.

Between 1947 and 1949, at least 750,000 Palestinians from a 1.9 million population were made refugees beyond the borders of the state. Zionist forces had taken more than 78 percent of historic Palestine, ethnically cleansed and destroyed about 530 villages and cities, and killed about 15,000 Palestinians in a series of mass atrocities, including more than 70 massacres......"

There are millions of people that are going through the actual experience as the rest of the world in many respects are basically helpless. I believe that many hearts and minds would change if they spent some time there with semitic Christian brothers or sisters whose families histories go as far back as the first century when God ended forever the kingdom of Judah ( as the ten tribes of Israel were scattered 800 years earlier).

Israel 1948 came into being as a political/ religious/ military movement with long thought out plans, and particular deals made with the governments during both world wars to facilitate their goals.

There is a ton of information that is not readily available on the details of what I am saying. It was not an organic, spontaneous kind of holy thing that just came together out of thin air.

 

 

 

Practically the whole Islamic world attacked Israel in 1948, what would you expect. Were it not for God's help, they would have all been terminated.  In 1967, they were about to try again, and again God helped them defeat Islam's terror.