Pre-Trib Rapture, some proofs

[EddieM]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

On 4/25/2025 at 5:13 PM, EddieM said:

1 – Jesus made a promise to the church in Philadelphia – Jesus said, “Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth” (Rev. 3:10).  In his book, Jesus and the End Times, Ron Rhodes states, “According to the Greek language…the phrase, ‘hour of trial’ is described in Revelation 4-18. It is this timespan that the church is to be kept from itself.”

The Greek here is 'to set a watch'. Nothing in the text suggests a leaving from one place to go to another or, being taken from one place and brought to another

What Greek word are you referring to?

You wrote without support: Nothing in the text suggests a leaving from one place to go to another.

Note that is also says: I will keep you from the hour (We will be taken out of the area of the event) of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.” Not to try us, but to try THOSE who dwell on the earth. (We will be removed from the earth.) Those who are "earth dwellers" (used of unbelievers) will not be kept from the hour of trial, they remain on earth.

 

 

 

[Vine Abider]

On 4/28/2025 at 9:58 AM, NConly said:

 There are churches that have gone astray and give good churches a bad name.

other that that I agree.

Boy, that opens up a huge topic, doesn't it!?  To be certain, we are one spirit with our brothers and sisters in all groups that have regenerated children of God in them. But certain denominations have let in various abhorrent beliefs and practices that aren't supported by scripture and are clear fruits of the flesh.  

I have no issue getting with individual believers or small groups, but Paul is strong about accepting certain behaviors and especially sexual immorality.  And while he exhorts us not to judge things outside the church, he also lets us know we shouldn't tolerate certain things in the church. (1 Cor 5:12)

Frankly, to me it seems the church must be a real puzzle to the world, with so many Christian groups espousing and practicing such a wide variety of things (including sexual immorality)!  And what a distraction from the one thing the church is here to testify of to the world - Christ and the message of accepting Him and His redemption.

[NConly]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Boy, that opens up a huge topic, doesn't it!?  To be certain, we are one spirit with our brothers and sisters in all groups that have regenerated children of God in them. But certain denominations have let in various abhorrent beliefs and practices that aren't supported by scripture and are clear fruits of the flesh.  

I have no issue getting with individual believers or small groups, but Paul is strong about accepting certain behaviors and especially sexual immorality.  And while he exhorts us not to judge things outside the church, he also lets us know we shouldn't tolerate certain things in the church. (1 Cor 5:12)

Frankly, to me it seems the church must be a real puzzle to the world, with so many Christian groups espousing and practicing such a wide variety of things (including sexual immorality)!  And what a distraction from the one thing the church is here to testify of to the world - Christ and the message of accepting Him and His redemption.

Matt 5

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Each person has their own view of who or what should be allowed in their church.

The leaders of the church are the vision if you will, pluck one or all out as needed.

[farouk]

4 minutes ago, NConly said:

Matt 5

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Each person has their own view of who or what should be allowed in their church.

The leaders of the church are the vision if you will, pluck one or all out as needed.

This is why those who lead in testimony need a lot of prayer.

[NConly]

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Eddie,

Good work there. I agree with most of what you wrote. The one point of difference is

`... saints are already in heaven. They are “The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses” (Rev. 19:14) at the armies of the end of the Tribulation.`

Jesus told us who would come with Him at the end of the trib.

`For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels;...` (Matt. 16: 27)

``...the Son of Man ...when He comes in His glory, & the glory of the Father & of the holy angels.` (Luke 9: 26)

You see angels are also described as wearing `pure, bright linen...` (Rev. 15: 6) 

 

But Saints are not Angels. Right

[Locust]

On 4/28/2025 at 11:24 AM, farouk said:

If one considers the who? as well as the what? then it's clear that the church will not be the object of the wrath of God on earth; the very Lord's Supper itself links a taking out of the world with the church: 'till He come' (1 Corinthians 11.26).

to use the word church instead of congeation , I really don't like it. there are infact so-called christion organisations  that do go against pure christion design . there are false christions that when push comes to shove God's kingdom will not be their first choice . they call them selves christion ,but are they?? Matthew 7:23 . ....... apparently not.

[DeighAnn]

23 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

It has to do more with simply being polite and showing consideration for others. For example, in my home it's perfectly acceptable to eat with your elbows on the table. It doesn't bother me or any of my immediate family. There's adequate room at the table to do so and it doesn't hurt anyone.

But my mom doesn't like elbows on the table, even though her table is as large as mine, and they won't hurt anything there either, but I defer to her rules out of respect for her.

And let's be honest, even with this post, no you didn't use capitals, but you certainly emphasized certain words by boldening certain letters. You could have conveyed your counter argument effectively without doing that, just like you could have conveyed your previous posts effectively without capitals, but you chose to bolden them.

And the reason isnt to try to have a respectful conversation, but to somehow paint me as the bad guy. It's called gaslighting, and in a very passive aggressive way. 

Adding in a little "warning" doesn't change anything, it's like saying "with all due respect" to someone before saying something you know will offend them. One isn't being respectful doing that, they're being passive aggressive.

Common forum etiquette says capitalizing is yelling. So to say "I'm not yelling" then proceed to yell, even though you know what etiquette is, isn't being your authentic self, or at least I hope it isn't, because it's being very rude.

In any case, that's all I have to say on the matter, as I have no interest in side railing this topic further, nor even, really in the topic whatsoever. Just dont want to see another topic shut down because the people within it can't debate in a Christlike and respectful manner.

I'll just quickly agree 

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, NConly said:

But Saints are not Angels. Right

Right. The difficulty arose when translators decided to write saints instead of `holy ones.` You see `holy ones` can be saints or angels. Thus, more scripture is needed to discern which one.

`Then the Lord, my God, will come & all His HOLY ONES with Him.` (Zech. 14: 5 NAS)

`Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His HOLY ONES.` (Jude v.14 NAS)

 

`HOLY ONES,`  from the Heb. `quodos,` meaning sacred, holy,  & from the Greek `hagio,` also sacred, holy.

 

Most Bible interpretation have `holy ones,` or `holy angels,` however a couple of versions have wrongly written `saints,` & this has caused some confusion. However if we read all scripture on this subject it becomes quite clear that it is the Lord Jesus, Israel`s Messiah, coming to earth with His Holy Angels to judge the Nations & to deliver Israel.

 

[Vine Abider]

17 hours ago, Locust said:

to use the word church instead of congeation , I really don't like it. there are infact so-called christion organisations  that do go against pure christion design . there are false christions that when push comes to shove God's kingdom will not be their first choice . they call them selves christion ,but are they?? Matthew 7:23 . ....... apparently not.

I'm with you on the ekklesia thing - many threads on here about this. And technically, if they are regenerated with the life of Christ in them, then they are Christians... who have gone off the rails. 

[DeighAnn]

What verse (s) speak to Christ 3rd Advent and 3rd ascending to heaven?   

Does He return as Servant, Saviour or LORD AND KING what would be the 2nd time?

How is this overcome?

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 

because He basically has to leave before to keep them from 


How is this overcome?

And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 

Wouldn't it stand to reason, given the above, if the church cast out part of the church (left it behind) it would be rendered to be divided against itself, how then shall the church 'left behind' stand'?  

And how can the 'church' not include - the 2 witnesses sent to the earth for the season, or the saints to be given a 10 day trial, the Holy Spirit speaking through them?
 

How is it going to be possible for SATAN and his angels to deceive anyone, once a billion people simultaneously disappear from off the face of the earth?   Besides the absolute mess and chaos, along with the mourning of those 'left' behind/not taken , how would the biggest miracle to ever take place, one that has been seen and felt by every single person left, be overcome by any kind of lying signs and/or wonder?


Does this just get 'voided out' with the above?   'afterward they that are Christ's at his coming' since not all the 'THEYS' that are Christs will be going at that coming? 

And what about...

20  And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. 21  And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22  For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

except those words don't apply to ANY of the pre trib theory, do they?


Then there is this problem, also without any being 'foretold' taking place, and it's a big one... 

27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Pre trib most definitely renders null and void  'appointed unto men once to die' since it has men NOT dying 2 different times, both pre and post trib.