A Simple Scriptural Response to a Spiritual Question

[tatwo]

Part 1

This might be different...at least for me. I have created this forum entitled “A Simple Scriptural Response to a Spiritual Question” which is in reference and response to Brother/Sister @Orion’s forum entitled “Christians, Politics and Voting”...here’s the link... https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/312223-christians-politics-and-voting/

This issue is of great importance...so I took the liberty to deconstruct Luke 4:5-8...as succinctly as I possibly could. This is but one angle I can use to reveal an abundance of light for the subject.

“And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said to Him, "I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. "Therefore if You worship before me, it shall all be Yours." Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.”

This subject is not particularly a difficult one...but few have really taken it on from this perspective and fewer yet successfully so. I do think it will represent the Holy Spirits intention for me presenting it to “whosoever will.” It will be worth the time required to read it and give it some extra thought...and as always I am open to true correction and additional light for the matter.

Here is the question posted at the bottom of @Orion Original Post...it is a 15 +/- minute read in its entirety...be strengthened Brothers and Sisters.

“Considering the awful nature of modern politics, and the continual evil of men and women from the left and the right that are in politics, should God loving God fearing Christians be involved and thus be complicit in the evil that continually grows out of modern politics?”

I think that as you progressed through your OP you inevitably left yourself with this question...I see wisdom in that Brother...it is the right question as well. I’ll take the opportunity to share something I have learned...here in the forum...concerning the matter in question.

I have noticed that the...“institutional Christians”...many of whom who identify with or as “Christian Nationalists” of which many are “Christian Zionists” or are sympathetic with them...typically answer your question something like this...

This is a paraphrase...but it covers the gist of their argument...”we believe it’s our God given duty, obligation or right to vote for the lesser of two evils...and for those who actually get involved politics...it is because we are citizens of and/or we feel we owe it to our country.” I have heard and seen this typical attitude many time albeit worded in different ways.

When this worldly and politically driven “Christian nationalist or populist mindset”...that says “the Kingdom of God and the governments of this world” are essentially governed or administrated in a similar fashion or...are the same thing...you have the conflation of the holy with the profane. Allow me to explain in the most basic way I can...

In Luke 4...it is revealed to us that Satan led the Lord Yahshua...“up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time” This means “all” the kingdoms of this...“world”...this world...at the very least...up to that time.

And then the devil goes on to say...“I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.” Keep these statements in your mind as we deconstruct them here.

There is a lot going on here and many folks often miss it...the devil says...“all this domain and its glory?” This domain...his domain...is none other than the “world”...and he is reveling in arrogance as he reveals it to the Lord of glory Himself. Now this “world” is the same “world” that John defined in the second chapter of his first epistle?

John wrote this...“Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” So maybe by now...the astute bible student is thinking...the “domain and glory” that the devil offered the Lord Yahshua that day...is none other than an opportunity to rule the “world – Satan’s world.” This is rich but I will try to stay on track here.

Tatwo...:)

Edited May 1 by tatwo

[tatwo]

Part 2

The word for “world” here in Luke 4:5 is “oikoumené” – meaning...the inhabited earth. And in verse 6 the word used there for “domain” is “exousia” – meaning...authority, power, right, and jurisdiction. This dragon is clearly pointing out that the earth and its inhabitants...as being under its authority. This explains the why and how it could offer them to the Lord Yahshua.

The devil then says...“for it has been handed over to me”...when...one might ask? In the garden of course where he swindled Adam & Eve by convincing them to obey him...and all of this is done via great deception. Adam was patently given the authority to rule the earth...and the serpent conniving as it is...convinced Adam to believe a lie that caused him to disobey his Father...there by forfeiting his God ordained rule over earth..as the son of God.

The serpent using “subterfuge” then “claimed” that Adam’s authority...became his...this is a lie...but a good one...that has deceived perhaps billions of humans since the Garden of Eden. Here in Luke 4 the dragon is trying to sell his ancient lie to the “Son of God” once again.

Satan is convinced that the “world” is his and that he rules the world as his “domain”...as “all the kingdoms of the world” no less. Again...this is an all out lie...and for this lie to become powerful...all that is required is...for it to be “believed as truth.” Anyways...in terms of those who are deceived by this lie...it is the dragon who rules the world... as the Scriptures plainly declare. Satan is the god of this world and has dominion over it.

This then leads us to the third part of the simple deconstruction of Luke 4:5-8. The devil tells the Lord Yahshua...“and I give it to whomever I wish”...now for those who are following along here...the dragon is revealing his beast.

Look...he says he can give “his domain – authority, power”...to whosoever he desires...the obvious question here would be...can he actually do this? Well when the dragon showed Yahshua “all the kingdoms of the world” that is exactly what he was doing. He was revealing to the Lord, how he had deceitfully crafted his domain on earth via mankind...which had its beginnings in the Garden of Eden.

This is a type of a “leadership constituency” of mankind who has been deceived concerning the identity of this...evil, invisible “dark spirit god” also known as “the ruler of the world...and...the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.” These “sons of disobedience” are they...who actually do believe that he...Satan...is God. Satan achieved this...via his power of deception...which has its foundation in the most powerful emotion in the unjustified human soul...fear!

This cross section of humanity can then be seen as the human leaders of “all the kingdoms of the world”...which the dragon has been crafting. “All the kingdoms of the world” can be defined as all the “nations of the earth”...”all the governments of the earth”...and by extension this means that...those men and women who rule in “all the kingdoms of the world” rule on behalf of and as authorized or empowered by Satan the dragon. This may be directly or in most cases indirectly.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

Part 3

How...you may be asking or wondering...did they [rulers of the nations] get this dominion authority...or maybe better said this “kingdom of the world” authority? Well Satan tells the Lord Yahshua Christ in Luke 4:7...“if You will worship before me, all will be Yours.”

In other words...Satan is declaring to the Lord that...if you worship and serve me as God...I will give you all the power and authority you need to rule my kingdom on earth. Here’s a wild thought...it is as though the dragon is offering the Lord Yahshua the role of “religious head” on the dragon’s beast?

Anyways...man...select men and women...receive power and authority to rule the nations, governments, kingdoms of the earth...in Satan’s “world” by “worshipping before him” or simply put worshipping Satan as God...this should open some eyes.

These men and women are darkly “inspired” by invisible evil spirits...think “prince of Persia and prince of Greece” from Daniels accounting in chapter 10. Everything these people believe about Satan as God is a lie...everything...they feed on it like it is the absolute truth as one can see by their actions.

So in a “nutshell” as they say...Satan portrayed himself to the Lord Yahshua as the glorious ruler over all the kingdoms of the world...as one claiming that all this power and authority was given to him...and because of that he may distribute the rule of these kingdoms among his spiritual counterparts as he so desires.

It is these yet invisible...dark and evil spirit accomplices...who are then delegated to rule over specific and unique segments or nations of humanity. It is in this reality...that the devil included in his presentation of “all the kingdoms of the world” that this is his “domain”...before the Lord Yahshua that day in the wilderness.

These powerful ruling spirits some of which...likely report directly to the dragon...then in turn do their “dirty deeds” among a largely “uninitiated human populace” from “the top - down”...if you will.

This is precisely what Paul had in mind when he penned the following...“For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.” In Ephesians 6:12.

Apparently Satan offered the highest seat in his administration...his kingdom just under his throne of course...to the Lord Yahshua Christ if the Lord would bow down before him and pledge His loyalty to the dragon as God!

Tatwo...:)

Edited May 1 by tatwo

[tatwo]

Part 4

Here is some interesting things about the Lord’s response to Satan as recorded by Luke in 4:8...“Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.” This would be an eternally powered response...directly from the throne of God...and as such, it is beyond contestation.

No Satan...you will bow before me as your God...and you will serve the issues of my creation as I desire. Matthews accounting of this...has the Lord Yahshua rebuking Satan and sending him away.

In both accountings the Lord clearly rebukes Satan’s arrogant offer...of course...He is the Son of God...God manifest in the flesh...He is already in charge of all of His creation. This shows how Satan did not completely recognize Him.

Also...the Lord never directly refuted the dragon’s claim of being ruler over “all the kingdoms of the world”...in fact at dinner one night the Lord referenced Satan as the “ruler of the world.”  Nor did He deny that Satan has the authority...to select whosoever will worship him as God...as leaders over his domain...his kingdom...which is “all the kingdoms of the world.”

It may be important for some of you to know that the word “world” is also translated as “kosmos” defined as...”the world, universe...worldly affairs..the inhabitants of the world.” And that...Satan can be described as “kosmokratór” defined as...“ruler of this world, that is, of the world as asserting its independence of God...used of the angelic or demonic powers controlling the sublunary world...this earth.”

Tatwo...:)

Edited May 1 by tatwo

[tatwo]

Part 5...conclusion

So after this brief deconstruction...and believe me when I say brief...it took me years of study and interaction with the Lord Yahshua to understand this for myself...simply because of all that is included scripturally in this picture...things I did not go into here.

I will now answer your question @Orion...from my perspective as I have attempted to articulate in these posts.

To begin with here...let me restate your last question...quoting you from your OP on the forum entitled “Christians, Politics and Voting”...“Considering the awful nature of modern politics, and the continual evil of men and women from the left and the right that are in politics, should God loving God fearing Christians be involved and thus be complicit in the evil that continually grows out of modern politics?”

Emphatically NO...reason being...first and foremost the Lord Yahshua Himself “turned down” the offer of a “high office” in the dragon’s government and...I see that as His example to me...and to His Kingdom. He openly stated that His “Kingdom is not of this world” when speaking to Pontus Pilate.

Satan is clearly the authority over “all the kingdoms of the world”...all secular ideologies are born of him and his deception. These are then carried out by invisible evil spirits who like Satan to Eve...simply deceive the souls of “mere men” thereby enlisting them in an organized and deceptive entity known today as...the governments of men and nations...known as the “world.”

These governments are conceived and empowered by the darkness and variously implemented by deceived and deceptive humanity. The administrations of these satanically borne governments of this world...can in no wise...be conflated with the administrations of the government of God as brought forth by the Holy Spirit in the Kingdom of God on earth...today.

The simple reason is...the administrators of the New Covenant...established in the shed blood of the Lamb of God...is an order known as the...“Royal Priesthood.” The contrast between the governmental administration of “Royal Priests” and the evil, unholy and profane administrations of the fallen and perverse spirits and unrighteous men of Satan’s kosmos...is a chasm that is in every way insurmountable.

Now for the majority of “Christian patriots” or “Christian Nationalists” or “institutional Christians” and “Christian Zionists”...this is going to be a hard pill to swallow. The reason is...that it leaves those who have been deceived by the dragon concerning the governments and nations of men...as being one and the same as the “spiritual Government of the Kingdom of God on earth”...with nowhere to go except...to continue in their unbelief and rebellion...or to have to admit they were deceived...and confess this before the Lord Yahshua and cease and desist from this unrighteous practice.

I suggest that latter while there is still day light...the darkness is increasing beloved of the Most High God!

Tatwo...:)

Edited May 1 by tatwo

[Orion]

18 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Brother/Sister @Orion’s

Brother. 😉👍 

 

23 minutes ago, tatwo said:

In both accountings the Lord clearly rejects Satan’s arrogant offer

Very nicely said, Brother (all four posts).  I wonder, however, if "rejects" is right.  I know what you are saying, but should we not say "rebukes" or "condemns"?  "Rejects" gives rise to a sense of  contemplation. Whereas "rebukes" or "condemns" gives rise to an immediate criticism of the thing offered.  

Your thoughts?

[tatwo]

21 minutes ago, Orion said:

Your thoughts?

Thank you Brother...its done

Tatwo...:)

[Orion]

42 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Thank you Brother...its done

Tatwo...:)

Thought about it and wasn't sure if it appeared I was splitting hairs.  Nicely stated posts. 👍 

[Who me]

The claim that Christians should not be involved  in the world is in direct opposition  to Jesus's  command to love those who are in the world.

 

Do you deliberately  shut your eyes to the evil and suffering in the world and say it has nothing to do with me?

 

If a neighbour  is in need would you help them?

Do you actually  support the preaching of the gospel and are you aware that being saved always is followed by a changed life.

That new life affects people, it causes ripples of change.

Yet you would have Christians not seek the opposition to evil, the encouragement of beneficial  life styles.

 

It is unloving to not tell a sinner about Jesus.

It is equally  unloving not to tell a people or society of the harm they are doing to themselves.

 

Jesus loved the sinner, do you,

 

[tatwo]

Greetings @Who me me...

8 hours ago, Who me said:

The claim that Christians should not be involved  in the world is in direct opposition  to Jesus's  command to love those who are in the world.

It would appear that either you did not read me...or if you did...that you simply do not agree. Whatever you did or did not do...you missed my point friend...that’s fine stay where you are with this if you like.

To be "involved" in the world is one thing...to "love" those who are in the world is another thing altogether. It was neither of those things that my posts addressed...if you would like to change the "subject" or the "topic"...you and I may be better served if you start a forum about "Jesus command to love the world" where you might further educate me/us in that matter. 

8 hours ago, Who me said:

Do you deliberately  shut your eyes to the evil and suffering in the world and say it has nothing to do with me?

 

If a neighbour  is in need would you help them?

Do you actually  support the preaching of the gospel and are you aware that being saved always is followed by a changed life.

That new life affects people, it causes ripples of change.

Yet you would have Christians not seek the opposition to evil, the encouragement of beneficial  life styles.

 

It is unloving to not tell a sinner about Jesus.

It is equally  unloving not to tell a people or society of the harm they are doing to themselves.

 

Jesus loved the sinner, do you,

Ok so you have made your point clear...your opinion is that my perspective is wrong. Your insinuations, questions, statement in regards to me...someone you do not know really...are yours...and for all you know...you are right.

They in no way define who I am...and it is obvious that you prefer to haggle about "your perceived ideals"...sorry friend I just don’t have time for "that" right now.

If you want to discuss my posts or the encapsulated ideals behind them...I may be able to meet you there...if not...I will receive the judgment that you have pronounced upon me in my ignorance of love...and try to do better.

Tatwo...:)