THE MONUMENTAL ERROR OF ELLEN GOULD HARMON WHITE

[OneAccord]

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Yod and One Accord,

Fine about spiritualizing the burden, but what say you about the Numbers passage that I posted where the man simply was gathering kindling on the Sabbath and the Lord ordered him stoned to death? The story is there for a reason, everything in the Bible ties in together.

The wages of sin is death, but Jesus came to give life and life more abundantly.

[JesusisGod2]

Blindseeker,

Jesusisgod:

It has been pretty much determined that EGW plagerized the Desire of Ages and didn't even write it. I can get you some documents on that if you are interested.

Yod and One Accord,

Fine about spiritualizing the burden, but what say you about the Numbers passage that I posted where the man simply was gathering kindling on the Sabbath and the Lord ordered him stoned to death? The story is there for a reason, everything in the Bible ties in together. I believe God wanted to show the severity of breaking the law and then I believe Jesus intentionally told the lame man to take up his bed and walk to show to all that could see that His purpose in coming was to fulfill the law and become our intercessor. He fullfilled every aspect, such as baptism to fulfill the cleansing laws, Holy SPirit decending on Him to fulfill the annointing of the High Priest. Cephais the High Priest at Jesus' death tore his clothes, which in the law it is stated if the High Priest tears his clothes he loses his priesthood. The scapegoat...Jesus became him, the veil rending in two. It's all there.

Hey wordsower,

Yes I would be interested in it.

I have one question on the man being stoned to death for the kindeling deal.

Isnt the sabbath a day of rest and symbolic of Jesus Christ and the finished work of redemption?

could it be that this man is a symbol of we as God's people doing our own work through unbelief in Gods instructions?

The writter of Hebrews writes that we enter Gods Sabbath (Rest) through the redemption of Jesus Christ (Heb4:3)

"for we who have believed do enter into rest....."

And then in Heb 4:10

"For he that has entered into His rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from His"

This whole chapter is speaking of salvation -- God's rest for us that we enter in through belief not through works of the law.

Another way to lok at the verse that I notice keeps being brought up of the sabbth was made for man and not man for the sabbath is

Salvation was made for man and not man for salvation in other words we cant work for our redemption it was already finished from the foundation of the world Heb 4:3

and as you had mentioned Jesus being the scape goat its all there! Now you got it Jesus being the final and perfect sacrifice took our sins upon Himself and was led by the Holy Spirit into the deseret as they did in the Jewish custom of the law, John being the last of the Jewish high priest laid his hands on Jesus.

And later said of him behold the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world and then He was to become the blood sacrifice, for without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin.

Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and by His death we have been set free from the curse of the law and now enter into His rest and cease from our own works (trying to follow the law)

In Romans 13:6 it says love is the fulfillment of the law for love does not murder or commitadultry etc.

no offence but I believe its a pretty vain thing to think that we can please God by observence of the law to which the scripture says that if we break one we have broken them all and are worthy of death.

God has set us at liberty to be able to truley love one another with agape love and therefore fulfill the law. The law was a tutor to lead us to Christ but once we find Jesus we no longer need the tutor for we have found the one who wrote the book the ultimate teacher.

well I have probably said enough.

God bless you word sower

[OneAccord]

no offence but I believe its a pretty vain thing to think that we can please God by observence of the law to which the scripture says that if we break one we have broken them all and are worthy of death.

Great Post, Jesus is God 2. What a great discussion! Iron sharpens iron

I guess the problem here is it leaves one somewhat pathless after salvation. As I posted before after living in lawlessness all my life, when I found the Lord I wanted desperately to have a set of hard and fast rules to live by, to please Him. And when we look to the Bible for instruction, guess what we find, the law!

Yes, love is the ultimate law, but us humans really struggle to achieve that total agape love and need some guidelines and principles. Other wise you would have Christian anarchy, which is essentially what we have now. Don't you have a desire to follow God's perfect law, even though you know you will always fall short? Psalm 119 is all about this.

"Oh that my ways were directed to keep your statutes,

Then I would not be ashamed

When I look into all your commandments..........."

Wordsower:

I would be very interested to know the sources that Ellen White allegedly plagurized in her writings. Are these sources as controversial as she is?

[wordsower]

Hey wordsower,

Yes I would be interested in it.

I have one question on the man being stoned to death for the kindeling deal.

Isnt the sabbath a day of rest and symbolic of Jesus Christ and the finished work of redemption?

could it be that this man is a symbol of we as God's people doing our own work through unbelief in Gods instructions?

The writter of Hebrews writes that we enter Gods Sabbath (Rest) through the redemption of Jesus Christ (Heb4:3)

"for we who have believed do enter into rest....."

And then in Heb 4:10

"For he that has entered into His rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from His"

This whole chapter is speaking of salvation -- God's rest for us that we enter in through belief not through works of the law.

Another way to lok at the verse that I notice keeps being brought up of the sabbth was made for man and not man for the sabbath is

Salvation was made for man and not man for salvation in other words we cant work for our redemption it was already finished from the foundation of the world Heb 4:3

and as you had mentioned Jesus being the scape goat its all there! Now you got it Jesus being the final and perfect sacrifice took our sins upon Himself and was led by the Holy Spirit into the deseret as they did in the Jewish custom of the law, John being the last of the Jewish high priest laid his hands on Jesus.

And later said of him behold the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world and then He was to become the blood sacrifice, for without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin.

Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and by His death we have been set free from the curse of the law and now enter into His rest and cease from our own works (trying to follow the law)

In Romans 13:6 it says love is the fulfillment of the law for love does not murder or commitadultry etc.

no offence but I believe its a pretty vain thing to think that we can please God by observence of the law to which the scripture says that if we break one we have broken them all and are worthy of death.

God has set us at liberty to be able to truley love one another with agape love and therefore fulfill the law. The law was a tutor to lead us to Christ but once we find Jesus we no longer need the tutor for we have found the one who wrote the book the ultimate teacher.

Well, I couldn't have said it better myself!

I'll be back with the plagerism articles...

[wordsower]

OK, it's quite long so here's the link:

http://www.truthorfables.com/Desire_of_Age...m#DA_Plagiarism

scroll up a little on the page and they have the contradictions of the book.

The site was started by a dear man that was an SDA most of his life. He held to the Sabbath just until last year or so. We have corresponded a lot. It was very traumatic for him as he was in his 50's when he realized what he had believed all of his life was a lie. There is a lot of info on that site, including somethings that really have shocked me!

[BlindSeeker]

Edit . . . I do not care to pursue this topic here . . .

[Catsmeow]

Cats, wolves don't come in wolves' skins.

Yeah, I know. :baa:

Word: Help me out here...didn't you mention you were in SDA once and got burned?

I'm not SDA and not terribly comfortable with SDA but as long as they are committed to the Lord and love Him sincerely, I guess we're still on the same team.

We all seem to have our scrupples, don't we? I'm into giving...and genuinely motivated to tithe because I love to do it.

One Accord has a strong conviction about honoring the Sabbath. That's important to her. Same thing for Blindseeker.

We all have scrupples...but we still have one Spirit...and regardless of these minor differences, that Spirit joins us in an unbeatable bond of brotherly love that's stronger than any doctrinal differences we might share.

[Catsmeow]

I just want to add this one thing....

2 Timothy 2:22-26

22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

[BlindSeeker]

I have decided to withdraw from this discussion. I will gladly reason any thing with anyone, but it is hard to get past people's bad feelings toward their old religious affiliations or get others to challenge long standing, yet unscriptural traditions they have known from their youth.

Let every man (woman) be fully persuaded within themselves . . . only let that persuasion come from God's word . . . and it alone.

Peace,

William

[wordsower]

Word: Help me out here...didn't you mention you were in SDA once and got burned?

I'm not SDA and not terribly comfortable with SDA but as long as they are committed to the Lord and love Him sincerely, I guess we're still on the same team.

I can't say I "got burned", the people in the church believe what they teach and they mean well. I can only pray that the veil is lifted.

I was raised SDA and most of my family is still SDA. As far as us being on the same team.....I feel we should study to show ourselves approved and not believe every wind of doctrine that comes our way. I was never serious about God so I just believed what I was told. When I became an adult it wasn't worth a hill of beans to me because none of it made sense.

The Sabbath is the least of my worries with the SDA's. Ellen White teaches, and they believe, that there is an investigative judgement going on now and it started in 1844 and if you pass the scrutiny you might make it into heaven, but you can't know for sure until you face judgement day.

That teaching nullifies Jesus' sacrifice and nullifies the cross. If a person can't understand the Jesus is the one saving them, I don't see how we are on the same team.

I do not wish to argue either, I hope I didn't come across that way. I feel a strong obligation to warn people about the SDA deceptions. There is a lot of information about it if anyone wants to research it. They are losing members and I know God is working in the lives of those who are willing to leave all and follow Him.