Choice of Denomination

[st. Worm]

"I agree too!

If we. . . (the Body of Christ) are focused on him, and being led by His Spirit. . . it wouldn't matter what "denomination" we are.

We would have pure untainted fellowship with each-other as we fellowship with HIM!

If WE are FOCUSED ON HIM!!!"

Ahh, if things were only so simple dear soul!

The problem is however we are still tainted with this thing called sin and that prevents us from the kind of fellowship with God you describe. Those who attempt to focus on Christ apart from his Word and Sacrament wind up futher away from God it seems. Luther called it the theology of glory. Luther also wisely pointed out when we look to ourselves apart from the Word to find God, we more likely will find the devil. Some day when our life here is over we will have that perfect fellowship with our Savior without the sin that blocks our view now. We will no longer need his written Word to have Him revealed to us.

Amen.

[MrSealedEternal]

Mr SE quote:

"God says we are born again by listening to the gospel and believing, so we do have to do something."

Thanks for MR SE for honestly revealing that it is actually YOU who believe in good works and man made religion accomplishing something before God. Your statement "so we have to so something" regarding our new birth sums up your entire theology. Jesus used the idea of birth for a reason it seems and that was to show that our new birth and regeneration is something we have absolutely no control over but instead it is something that is done to us by the Holy Spirit though Word and Sacrament. THAT is grace.

Faith is not a work. Sacraments are. God says you have to have faith in order to receive a new birth, as I have showed you from scripture. He never says you have to keep some so-called sacraments anywhere in scripture.

In answer to Nebula's question. Here's what I'm talking about. Catholics, Lutherans, Episcopalians, and Presbyterians believe you have to keep something called sacraments in order to be saved. This is an invention of the Catholic "church" that has been passed down to it's daughter "churches" which is a religious system where man works out his own salvation. If you go to the thread on Sabbath Keeping you'll find another popular works based salvation. Then you can go to the thread on Losing Salvation and see more works based "gospels." My point is that people who are working for their salvation have fallen from grace, and have become their own "savior" by rejecting Christ's payment "Once for all."

Mr SE

[nebula]

Although I agree with what you say about sacraments, I do not agree that their belief in such negates them from being a part of Christ's Church, His body.

If you look at the rebukes of the churches Jesus gave in Revelation, His judgements for incorporating false doctrine into their midst was not a loss of salvation or a disownership from the individuals being a part of His Chruch - just that there would be a destruction of their corporate church (and I distinguish between the Capital C and lower case c with "Church" and "church"). Of course, their false doctrine was an actual compromise with sin. Placing baptism and comunion and whatever as necessary for salvation is misplacing their importance. But to curse them into outer darkness for such? I find that a bit unreasonable - and not Scriptural.

[MrSealedEternal]

Although I agree with what you say about sacraments, I do not agree that their belief in such negates them from being a part of Christ's Church, His body.

If you look at the rebukes of the churches Jesus gave in Revelation, His judgements for incorporating false doctrine into their midst was not a loss of salvation or a disownership from the individuals being a part of His Chruch - just that there would be a destruction of their corporate church (and I distinguish between the Capital C and lower case c with "Church" and "church"). Of course, their false doctrine was an actual compromise with sin. Placing baptism and comunion and whatever as necessary for salvation is misplacing their importance. But to curse them into outer darkness for such? I find that a bit unreasonable - and not Scriptural.

Jesus Christ judges His people for their failures in being faithful to his Word, but those who are trying to save themselves by their own works are not His people to begin with. He does not "curse them into outer darkness" for misplacing the importance of baptism and the Lord's table. They reject Him by trying to save themselves by their own covering instead of trusting Him, and have therefore cast themselves into "outer darkness." Sacramental salvation, as well as other works based salvation's, are not simply false doctrine, which is bad enough in itself, but is in fact a "different gospel." There is only one gospel that can save mankind, and that is by trusting in Christ alone. Those who have not truly trusted in Him have not been born again, and therefore are not part of his Church "ekklesia."

Mr SE