Choice of Denomination

[Waimahia]

One Who Wishes to Love God,

You are being cruel to trinitarians when you ask, "So I am ask, NO BEGGING some one to show only scripturely where in the Bible says that you must believe that God exsists in three persons in order to be a Christian.....PLEASE !!!"

You know it's not there. Please give them a break.

all the best,

Waimahia

You think so, do you?

"Then Jesus came to them and said,

[Iryssa]

Ummm...was there supposed to be a rebuttal in that post? Because it didn't work...

[Waimahia]

Ummm...was there supposed to be a rebuttal in that post? Because it didn't work...

Hi Iryssa,

very busy right now. Will reply later. In the meantime please check ALL of the formal introductions to the epistles.

Regards,

Waimahia

[ONE WHO WISHES TO LOVE GOD]

One Who Wishes to Love God,

You are being cruel to trinitarians when you ask, "So I am ask, NO BEGGING some one to show only scripturely where in the Bible says that you must believe that God exsists in three persons in order to be a Christian.....PLEASE !!!"

You know it's not there. Please give them a break.

all the best,

Waimahia

Hi Waimahia Please do not misunderstand my motive there are many who claim that in less you believe in the trinity you are not a Christian however i have yet to see any scriptule establishment of this being a requirement in order to affirm one being a Christian

However if there is no scripture that says that, then by what do those who claim that it is a requirement base their judging those who do not believe in the trinity as not being a Christian

In fact i feel that is cruel because first off the trinitiarian presumes to speak for God When they judge someone not to be a Christian.

This to me makes no sense at all because even they say it is a mystery that can not be understood and also the word trinity it self is equally uninspired since you do not have God nor Jesus not even the Apostles use this word in the describing the nature of God

maybe they feel more enlightened then these since trinitarians have come up with many ideas of how to describe the nature of God all of which are equally uninspired, so thats why i ask for scriptues only because if it does not say it there well I am not interested

why wouldn't God take the confusain out by simply saying there is one God but three Persons and all equally God. I guess that just might take the mystery out of it.

To me the belief that Jesus is the Son of God the only means to be saved have fellowship with the Father, it's because of his sacrifice I can be forgiven of my sin and whom the Father has entrusted all authority to all this is scriptule and I do believe.

however never have i read any scripture that states that you must believe God exsists as Three persons in order to be a Christian. If there is none maybe there is a reason why.

JOHN 17. 3 says That this means their everlasting life their taking in knowledege of you the ONLY TRUE GOD and of the one you sent forth Jesus Christ.

WHO is the, YOU Jesus is talking about here ??? Is it not the Father.

also why did Jesus make a distinction between him self and his Father ???

Why did he not say ??? their taking in knowledge of us or we, the only true God.

please anybody please help me if I am WRONG.

WHY ??? WHY ??? WHY ???

Edited December 24, 2005 by ONE WHO WISHES TO LOVE GOD

[Arthur Durnan]

What "denomination" was the Apostle Paul? What church did Andrew & John attend? And Peter? He never once saw the inside of a "Roman Catholic" church. Our Lord Jesus Christ was indeed a Nazarene - "Can any good thing come out of Nazareth? YES!! - but He never visited a "Church of the Nazarene." All very interesting. What did David say long ago? "I am a companion of all those who fear Him and keep His commandments."

Let names & sects & parties fall,

And Jesus Christ be All in all! Amen!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Iryssa]

Waimahia,

I think you should check the gospels. There is clear evidence in John 1 that Christ is God.

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying,

[nebula]

From "denominations" to the "Trinity debate."

My, oh my . . . what a thread hijack!

[Iryssa]

From "denominations" to the "Trinity debate."

My, oh my . . . what a thread hijack!

*laugh* you're right...maybe I should've posted my reply in a new topic...well, I'll do it next time.

[Smalcald]

I think the trinity issue comes up as the vast majority of Christian groups over the history of Christian life have believed in the Trinity with a couple of notable exceptions, today those being Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses and a couple of others. In general other Christians have not considered those who do not hold Christ to be God, as a Christian. For example Islam holds that Christ was born of the virgin and ascended to heaven, but they do not hold that He is God. Islam esteems Christ just as much as any other faith, which does not hold that Christ, is God. I think it is a crucial definitional distinction and a crucial difference. The most liberal Episcopalian and the most conservative Baptist both agree on this one thing, that Christ is God and man, that we should pray to Christ He is our Lord and Savior.

If Christ were not God it would be blaspheme to pray to Him or to Baptize in His name. Do we have many Gods? No we do not, there is only one God, creator of all, and only God can be worshipped.

However I don't know if we can hold people to some higher level of Trinitarian knowledge or understanding, it is a hard topic and frankly a mysterious one. It is hard, so if someone is messed up on it well I don't know if that is critical as long as they esteem in their heart Christ as their savior have true faith in Christ alone to forgive their sins (if they do that they are in effect already believing Christ is God, as only God has the power to forgive our sins), and see Christ as divine, and not a some sort of created being, a lesser being so to speak, I think they believe in the Trinity, even if they don't understand it or think they believe in it.

Anyway back to denominations. I think they are a tradeoff, they are not an optimal situation, but at the same time I think they are a necessary evil until the return of Christ.

[Waimahia]

Hi Iryssa,

You wrote "I think you should check the gospels. There is clear evidence in John 1 that Christ is God." I agree with you totally on that.

Absolutely no dispute about Christ being God. It's that the Holy Spirit is the third and equal person in the Godhead that trinitarians find very slim (read "no") support for. We will get back to Matt 28: 19 later.

By the way, the reason I directed you to the formal greetings in the epistles is not to see if you could find a reference to the word "trinity". I wouldn't send you on a wild goose chase. I know that "trinity" like "rapture" is not to be found in scripture.

As you probably know, the ancients in their formal salutations sent greetings in the name of their own God. The Apostles NEVER greet in the name of "The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit". What an insult to a supposedly third and equal person in the Godhead! What this demonstrates for those who have open eyes is that the Apostles did not know the concept of Three Persons in one Godhead. Even some trinitarian scholars admit this much and fall back on "progressive revelation" to explain how the concept of the trinity grew over following centuries.

I urge anyone to check on the history of the trinity doctrine in any authority which has no axe to grind on the issue. The Eleventh Edition of Britannica (on-line) would be a good place to start.

There are trinitarians and there are non-trinitarians. This issue is important becaue one of these groups is actually worshipping a false God.

I will write up re: Matt 28 and post later.

Now, please study all those formal greetings in the epistles and prayerfully ponder.

All the best,

Waimahia