Book of Isaiah

[traveller]

It's one of my favorites too. My favorite verse of all time is in Isaiah.

Isa 40:12-31

Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD,or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing. And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering. All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.

To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains. He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved.

Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity. Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the LORD, and my judgment is passed over from my God? Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding. He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength. Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall: But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

[JohnS]

Here is Calvin on Isaiah (been reading it at lunch!).

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom13.toc.html

[IslandRose]

Me too, Trav....Me, too

IR :il:

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[nebula]

I like Isaiah 48...especially verse 16 because it is the Trinity revealed. This is one verse that the Jehovah Witnesses forgot to take out. I showed that a young JW guy once and he got saved on the spot.

Isaiah 48:16 -

"Come near me and listen to this:

"From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret;

at the time it happens, I am there."

And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me,

with his Spirit.

Can you explain this one, please?

[Crusader4Christ]

One of my favourite verses in Isaiah is this one.

Isaiah 1:18

"Come now, let us reason together, saith the Lord; though your sins be as

scarlet, they shall be a white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

[OneAccord]

Interesting hodgepodge of comments

I'll address a few of them first:

yod:

I love EVERYTHING about Isaiah's book...

It's the best book for witnessing to the jewish people...along with other Old Testament passages like Daniel 9 and Psalm 2 & 22, Proverbs 30:4-5, and Micah 5:2

OA:

How do you interpret this verse in Chapter 29:11?

The whole vision has become to you like the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one who is literate, saying, "Read this please." And he says, "I cannot, for it is sealed."

I believe God is talking to the Jews here, therefore I question how effective this book is as a witness tool.

JohnS:

That link to Calvin's line by line commentary is excellent. I bookmarked it and hope to glean some good exegesis from it. Has it helped you get a clearer understanding of Isaiah? I checked out Chapter 14, and his comments on Lucifer line up with my understanding.

Nebula:

Isaiah 48:16 -

"Come near me and listen to this:

"From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret;

at the time it happens, I am there."

And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me,

with his Spirit.

OA:

This verse can be interpreted as a revelation of the Trinity, like yod said. I think that much of the OT prophecy is Jesus Himself speaking, yet speaking the will of His Father, if that makes any sense.

It reminds me of Matthew 22:41-45 While the Pharisees were gathered together Jesus asked them, saying " What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?" They said to Him, "The Son of David."

He said to them, " How then does David in the Spirit call Him Lord, saying 'The Lord said to my Lord' "...........

Crusader for Christ:

One of my favourite verses in Isaiah is this one.

Isaiah 1:18

"Come now, let us reason together, saith the Lord; though your sins be as

scarlet, they shall be a white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

OA:

Yes, there are a lot of wonderful and popular verses in Isaiah, it's probably one of the most quoted Books of the Bible. I can understawnd these verses when taken singly, but to read it straight through it is very difficult and that's what I'm hoping to address in this thread.

Traveller:

Great site, but I'm like you, I just can't read studious material on the computer, I much prefer a comfy chair or table and a good old-fashioned book for deep study.

[OneAccord]

I'd like to attempt a Bible Study on this thread, not line by line or anything like that, but to look at some major themes that are running through Isaiah, and some of the challenges to understanding it well.

I am using J. Vernon McGhee's commentary as I journey through Isaiah. He's helpful but is extremely literal and doesn't address a lot of the imagery and allegory that I am interested in trying to understand better,

In His outline/overview, he divides Isaiah into three major divisions

1. Judgement Chapters 1-35

God's charge against the nation Israel with glimpses of the future of Judah and Jerusalem, glimpses of the millenial kingdom, a series of burdens of surrounding nations, glimpses of the Messiah and His virgin birth, etc.

2. Historic Interlude Chapters 36-39

King Hezekiah, Invasion and destruction of Sennacherib, King of Assyria. McGhee notes that this section may be a prophetic picture of how God will deliver His people in the Great Tribulation.

3. Salvation Chapters 40-66

Comfort, salvation and glory of God through the Saviour as suffering servant

So we see running throughout the Book God's plan for Israel. His call for repentance, the blindness of their disobedience, His judgement upon them, His promise to deliver them and heal them, and the millennial kingdom.

Interspersed with His program for Israel is the burdens and woes declared on the nations, which take up a good portion of the first half of the book and the same themes run through other prophetic books, especially Ezekiel.

And then we see pictures of the Messiah interwoven, often in unexpected places if you are trying to read it straight through like prose.

One of the challenges to reading this book is that these major themes are all mixed together like a patchwork crazy quilt. It appears to jump around suddenly from theme to theme in a not very orderly way.

Not only does it jump around from theme to theme, but time is very confusing as well. (Travellers post on the mountain ranges is a good word picture of prophetic time). I get really confused on the time factor from verse to verse it's hard to decide if he's talking about soon-coming events or endtime events or often both with the double-fulfillment concept.

Then there is the challenge of figuring out who he is talking to....sometimes it's pretty clear but many times I find the you's and they's pretty confusing in the Bible in general. The Amplified Bible is helpful with this because it will make it clear in parenthesis whereever it is vague, although I am finding that I don't always agree with the AMP in Isaiah on this one.

There is also a huge amount of imagery and allegory (symbolic word pictures). I find it very difficult to stay in the literal. For example: mountains, nations, kingdoms, and cities seem to be speaking of the same idea of 'kingdoms'. Wilderness and desert are interesting words in their context here. These are just a couple of many, many such allegories.

I also get caught up in trying to sort out Israel, Zion, Jerusalem, Judah, Jacob, Ephraim, Ariel. Are they all the same or is there some difference in each term?

I won't get into trying to sort out the nations yet, but am definitely wanting to bring that up later in the thread.

Right now I am just hoping others will jump in and talk about how they deal with the challenges I've set forth here, if they have the same challenges I do, or is it just me? Maybe this book just isn't opening up for me. Maybe I need to do Isaiah in a Year and just do a few verses a day.

[nebula]

I've brought up this point before in a different type of discussion, but to gain an understanding of what is being written, you need to understand that the Bible was not written in the "Western style of writing." If you are reading Isaiah with the understanding of "our" rules of literature, you'll never get it.

The "literary rules" of the Bible are more akin to Eastern thought than Western thought (Western thought being that which has arisen out of Greece et al.). Speaking in types and symbols and allegories makes perfect sense to them. The key is to figure this out. (Here's an example: if the number 40 is symbolic or representative of "a very long period of time," was the "40 days and 40 nights" of the Great Flood a literal 40 days and nights or a figurative/symbolic 40 days and 40 nights? We could go in circles over that one!)

Unfortunately, I cannot give you an easy explanation of what I am refering to here off the top of my head. But I just want to encourage you to imagine yourself reading this from the mindset of the ancient Israel world view rather than the modern Western world view.

Make sense?

[OneAccord]

The "literary rules" of the Bible are more akin to Eastern thought than Western thought (Western thought being that which has arisen out of Greece et al.).  Speaking in types and symbols and allegories makes perfect sense to them.  The key is to figure this out.

Great post, Nebula.

The New Testament seems to be more 'western' in style, I suppose having been written in Greek.

As for the types, symbols, and allegories...I agree with you very much, but I see so many interpretors trying to stay in the strictly literal sense, but then make exceptions where it doesn't work. For example, in Isaiah they will interpret a prophecy to be for Assyria in Hezekiah's time, until they get to a verse where it doesn't fit or hasn't happened, so then it's suddenly looking into the last days. These literal interpretations leave me hungry. I think that unlocking the meanings of the allegories is an exciting adventure! A virtual treasure hunt, a quest to unravel the enigmas, parables, and dark sayings of old.......

Isaiah is chock full of them!

I recently purchased a book called the Dictionary of Biblical Symbols, a big, fat 30$ book that is fantastic, but it is huge and I've barely begun to search out some of the words that strike me.

[JohnS]

JohnS:

That link to Calvin's line by line commentary is excellent. I bookmarked it and hope to glean some good exegesis from it. Has it helped you get a clearer understanding of Isaiah? 

Of course!

I'd like to attempt a Bible Study on this thread, not line by line or anything like that, but to look at some major themes that are running through Isaiah, and some of the challenges to understanding it well.

Chapter by chapter, Maybe?

Chapter One

Contents: Charge against Israel for their ingratitude and degeneration. Call to repentance and reformation.

Conclusion: The backslidings of those who have professed relations to God are very provoking to Him and all departures from Him are aggravated by the constant manifestation of His goodness and mercy toward the backslider. Those who will break off their allegiance with sin are always welcome to come back to fellowship with Him.

Key Word Sinsick,

Isaiah 1:5 (ESV)

Why will you still be struck down?

Why will you continue to rebel?

The whole head is sick,

and the whole heart faint.

Promise:

Isaiah 1:18 (ESV)

"Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord:

though your sins are like scarlet,

they shall be as white as snow;

though they are red like crimson,

they shall become like wool.

Christ Seen:

Isaiah 1:11 (ESV)

"What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices?

says the Lord;

I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams

and the fat of well-fed beasts;

I do not delight in the blood of bulls,

or of lambs, or of goats.

The costly devotions of those who have not apprehended Christ, He of whom the sacrifices were but a faint shadowing, are an abomination to God.