AS USUAL, CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS DON'T GET IT

[Catsmeow]

Ah yes the "abortion on deman" and "convenience" type of nonsense. Nobody goes out, has sex with the idea that they'll just get an abortion if they get pregnant. Abortion is neither "convenient" nor "on demand". It is however a legal, available and more safe option then the alternatives and it's the WOMANS right to make the determination not yours or the governments.

Most High: Are you a woman?

Second question: Have YOU had an abortion?

Do you have any IDEA of the HELL it causes a woman who's had one? DO YOU? I KNOW! I HAVE HAD ONE! There's no CHOICE in this...it's insane. It's a lie!

This is murder. I murdered, is what I did. I've had to live with this nightmare YOU CALL CHOICE for years now. Don't tell me about "choice". I was given a loaded gun. That's all it amounts to.

I was given a choice to kill my own baby.....don't even talk to me about "choice". Baloney. It was the WORST thing that ever happened to me...and now I have to live with it.

I go CRAZY when I hear people who blah, blah, blah ...about "choice". What "CHOICE" did my unborn baby have when I did my own thing?

And yeah, it's demand alright...you simply go to the clinic and they do it. You pay them money and that's it. Over and done.

Don't EVEN tell me this nonsense about it being "choice"...it wasn't a choice for the baby I killed. I will ALWAYS live with that so-called "choice". You call it that....I call it a license I was given to commit a murder.

Now, I have the sentence of guilt hanging over me for the rest of my life....man, I hate it when people talk about things they have NO CLUE about.

[Catsmeow]

If enough people obey God's command "Stay away from sexual immoralty" abortion clinics will close not by the force of law but through lack of demand.

This I'll agree with wholeheartedly.

[Guest Kilad]

I had been a life long Republican but will no longer support that party. I will never vote for someone who supports abortion. I no longer support the death penalty simply because a judicial system that is as corrupt as ours should not have the ability to put someone to death.

[jacob]

Most High,

Thank you for all your posts on this subject.

I agree!!!

[apothanein kerdos]

I had been a life long Republican but will no longer support that party. I will never vote for someone who supports abortion. I no longer support the death penalty simply because a judicial system that is as corrupt as ours should not have the ability to put someone to death.

Our system ISN'T corrupt though...especially when it comes to the death penalty. Do you people actually researc stuff before forming opinions?

[Guest Kilad]

I had been a life long Republican but will no longer support that party. I will never vote for someone who supports abortion. I no longer support the death penalty simply because a judicial system that is as corrupt as ours should not have the ability to put someone to death.

Our system ISN'T corrupt though...especially when it comes to the death penalty. Do you people actually researc stuff before forming opinions?

I was a police officer for 10 years. As an Insider from our system of justice I can tell you that it is very corrupt. Far too many cases involve investigations that were pushed through by lazy or over worked officers. Believe it or not Cops will lie on the witness stand to prosicute someone just because they have a feeling they are guilty or have the opinion of "they may not have done this but they are guilty of something" attitude. Innocent people go to jail because they cant afford the high dollar attorney. The guilty get off because they can afford the high dollar attorney. THat is a corrupt system.

Juries convict people because they dont like the way they look. Because the prosecuting attorney was cute. THere are people on death row because evidance that would prove their innocence beyond any doubt was not allowed in court.

Yes our system is corrupt it is very corrupt but its the best we currently have.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE(shiloh357 @ Jan 15 2006, 01:33 PM)

You were the one calling for "honesty." I am simply called attention to the rank hypocrisy coming from someone who so casually thinks that she can assign false values to our postion, when she has been here long enough to know better. You are the last one who needs to be tellin US to be honest. That is not a personal attack, it is just a level of HONESTY that you don't want to face up to.

Actually what you said "Yes lets demonstrate some honesty. Something you seem to always possess in short order, not to mention your lack of practical knowledge in the issues you choose to address." translates into "you're a liar" which would be a personal attack where none was deserved by my post, which was not even directed at anyone in particular. The latter part of that sentence being nothing but your personal opinion of me which was not the issue either. So basically you came out swinging at me before taking on the post. Attacking the speaker before the issue is a sad tactic that exposes either your hatred of me or your lack of confidence in your argument. I would much prefer to stick to the discussion rather than attack each other on a personal level.

The dishonesty you possess amounts to your continued misrepresenting us, and assigning values upon your illinformed perceptions of our positions. You argued that to be pro-life we must be against war, and against the death penalty otherwise we cannot be "pro-life" since by YOUR dishonest defintion of the term, supporting war and the death penalty cannot be internally consistent with being against abortion. It also demonstrates a lack of any intellectual grip on the issues you are addressing.

QUOTE

That is not the issue. This is not a debate about abortion, per se. The OP is concerned with the inability of most conservatives to reconcile all the money being spent on the Pro-Life cause, and such little in the way of results to show for it. I am not going to hijack the thread into a debate on abortion. Oh and BTW the "over-crowed planet" argument has already been debunked.

You're correct that abortion is not the issue. I simply stated my position so that no one could claim I am "pro-abortion".

Where exactly was the "over-crowded planet" argument debunked? Wasn't that part of the OT that no longer applies since the coming of Christ or will you hold that as another of those "exceptions"?

There is plenty of room on the earth for all of humanity to live. There are vast areas of our planet that are not developed and could be made much, much more hospitible. We have the means and the technology to do it. To deny that demonstrates more intellectual dishonesty.

OT??? what are you talking about???

QUOTE

So, it does not follow that being for war, is contradictory to a Pro-Life world view. As I demonstrated, you are trying to force together two issues that are totally dissimilar.

Where was it that you "demonstrated this to me? I do not see the dissimilarity between the 2 arguments. I do see that you'd like to make them seem dissimilar.

Abortion is the wanton act of taking an innocent human life. Legitimate war is not. Innocents may die in war, but they are not the targets. It is one thing for inncoents to die in a war as the result of conflict, it is another thing altogether to target innocents on purpose. When that happens in war, it is called an atrocity. When it happens in an abortion clinic, it is called "a woman's right." Abortion is demonic, horrific, heinous atrocity, an abomination. It is no different morally, than taking the life of a new born.

QUOTE

As I said, we are not perfect. The same kind of absurd argument could be made for not locking anyone up at all. Since we are fallible, should we have a criminal justice system at all?? Should we risk locking up an innocent man? Should we stop arresting people since we might make a false arrest??? If anyone's position is weak, it is yours.

The difference being that if you lock up someone for life they still have their life and if you eventually find that they are wrongly convicted you can free them, if you've killed them then you would be guilty of murder. Of course you neglected to comment on the fact that it's also cheaper to lock them up than to kill them. The rest of your argument is invalid based on the argument I just made. I'm not advocating we stop punishing criminals as your ridiculous comment would seem but rather that we NOT kill people who might actually be innocent. I would much rather risk locking up an innocent person than killing him. The fact that we are fallible means that the we can never be 100% certain that the system we created to dish out the ultimate punishment (death) is 100% accurate. Your position is weak.

No, my position is not weak. Yes, we can release someone who we falsely arrest, or falsely imprison. The problem I have is with the absurdity that if it is not 100%, then we cannot use it at all. We have never built anything that is 100% flawless. The death penalty is not a lottery. It is reserved for only the worst offenders. Usually those who have committed the most heinous crimes are given the death penalty. There are people who have committed murder who are serving life sentences. Death penalty inmates are those who are especially evil, inpenitent, and irretrievably wicked. They rape and then dismember children. There are is a man sitting on death row in my state for killing the baby of his girlfriend by food deprivation and exposure. Another man is serving the death penalty for repeatedly running a man over with his car. Another man is sitting on death row because dressed as a priest and shot a an old widow in the back. A 70 year old man was killed by being blugeoned to death when he walked up on his house being robbed. One guy murdered his 17 year old girlfriend just two miles from where I live because she cheated on him. He tied her by her wrists to the bumper of his truck and then dragged her to death on a gravel parking long doing donuts until hte only thing left tied to his bumber were her hands. Try telling her parents that the death penalty was wrong.

These are not bar room brawls or domestic situations that got out of control. These are the kind of ultra heinous, inhuman monstrous atrocities for which there is no description that can be offered in socially acceptable terms. But wait, you're a liberal. You would prefer these animals to spend the rest of their lives sitting in prisons with cable TV, and ping pong.

People like you dehumanize, and deny true justice to the victims of these animals. Your position is not only weak, it is offensive to any rational, thinking peron , and anyone of a proper civilized, and moral composure. I would love to see you make your case to the parents of Polly Klaas, or the victims who lost their babies at the hands of Timothy McVeigh. But as can be seen the victims don't mean anything to people like you.

Edited January 17, 2006 by shiloh357

[ted]

What a beautiful thread this has turned out to be.

t.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

I closed this wholly unedifying thread.

Let me state with clarity the Mission of this Ministry.

It is for the Preaching of the Good News. To set the Captives Free. To lift High the name and the Agape Love of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To anounce the Outrageous Grace extended to us and any one whom will. Thereby seeing souls Saved from sure eternal damnation.

Lu

Edited January 17, 2006 by Dr. Luke