Hello

[Guest LDStudent]

Mormonism teaches that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross itself (and receiving it by faith) is not sufficient to bring forgiveness of sins. It teaches that the forgiveness of sins is obtained though a cooperative effort with God; that is, we must be good and follow the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church in order to obtain forgiveness. This contradicts the biblical doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9) and the doctrine that works are not part of our salvation but a result of them (Rom. 4:5, James 2:14-18).

Incorrect. LDS Scripture:

2 Nephi 10:24 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.

Mosiah 27:25-26 And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters; And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.

I know you did not ask what we believe, but I will explain anyways. We believe we are saved by grace. However, unlike "mainstream" Christians, we do not believe one can just continue sinning and yet be saved. As 1 John 2:4 emphasizes, He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Furthermore, James 2:17 - Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Therefore, we see that with real faith comes real fruit: obedience to God, and the good works therein.

We believe in order to be saved, one must have faith in Christ, be baptised, receive the Holy Ghost, and endure in their faith. This is supported in the Bible.

To further confuse the matter, Mormonism further states that salvation is twofold. It maintains that salvation is both forgiveness of sins and universal resurrection. So when a Mormon speaks of salvation by grace, he is usually referring to universal resurrection. But the Bible speaks of salvation as the forgiveness of sins, not simple universal resurrection. Where Mormonism states that forgiveness of sins is not by faith alone, the Bible does teach it. Which is correct? Obviously, it is the Bible.

Incorrect. We believe there is one unforgivable sin: blasphemy. And yes, there are multiple degrees of salvation. Jesus said, In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. (John 14:2) In a sense, the resurrection is a form of salvation: being saved from physical death. However, those who are not alive in spirit will be condemned. The salvation of our spirit is possible only through faith in Christ, according to His abundant mercy.

"Mormonism further states that salvation is twofold." -- what/where is "Mormonism"?

You would think the author could fork up some references. Hmm...

Mormonism, to justify its aberrant theology, has undermined the authority and trustworthiness of the Bible. The 8th article of faith from the Mormon Church states, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly." The interesting thing is that Joseph Smith allegedly corrected the Bible in what is called The Inspired Version, though it is not used by the LDS church. Though they claim they trust the Bible, in reality they do not. They use Mormon presuppositions to interpret it.

It is true that we do not believe the Bible is inerrant. For example, I believe that there are differences between, say, the KJV and the "The Message" which fundamentally alter the meaning of the passages. If one version of the Bible implies something different than another version, how can it be inerrant? And which versions are "inspired"? Do you consider "The Message" to be inspired? The majority of Christians seem to. As for myself, I consider it a PERversion!

To summarize: we believe the word of God is imperfect in text, but made perfect by the power of the Holy Ghost speaking the Word to our hearts.

For example, where the Bible says there are no other gods in the universe (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8), they interpret it to mean "no other gods of this world." They do not trust what it says and they often state that the Bible is not translated correctly.

Why is Mormonism a non Christian cult? Because it adds works to salvation. It denies that Jesus is the uncreated creator. It alters the biblical teaching of the atonement. It contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism. It undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible.

CARM ought to be ashamed of themselves for bearing false witness.

[ONE WHO WISHES TO LOVE GOD]

BIG WELCOME Ld Student I am glad you decided to join Worthy It is my hope however that you would consider using this forum to help show you how what the Mormans teach is not correct in as far that they have deviated from the truth further more we are given only one title to be called after and that is Christian, no more no less. So bro I pray that the LORD will help you see through the false teachings of the self aclaimed latter day saints. Any ways welcome to Worthy

[IslandRose]

"You are already judged by the Bible! Joseph Smith added on to the Bible via his phony Book of Mormon."

That verse is speaking of the Book of Revelation. For your information, the Bible (as a collection of various books) did not exist when John wrote Revelation. Furthermore, the Bible (as a collection of various books) has been altered over the centuries. The Protestant KJV has existed only since the 17th century, when the Apocrypha was removed.

Hmm. So much for your argument.

Awwww and I thought I did such a good job of explaining the canon of the scripture to you in my PM. Actually, the Apocrypha was only added to the scripture in the 16th century by the Catholic church and a few of it's clones. Most Protestant groups as well as the Anabaptists have never accepted the apocrypha, as I demonstrated in my PM to you. I don't think that any of us have said that any particular translation is inerrant, rather, the scriptures in there original manuscripts were inerrant, and that we have 5366 manuscript copies of the NT from various people, times and places. Some are complete, some are not. Some in good shape, some are not. But though they are from many different groups and regions, they are all virtually identical. In the 20, 000 lines of the Greek New Testament, there are only 40 lines, 400 words, that are in any way questioned. One half of one percent. Most of these 400 words are grammatical. Our translations are sometimes corrected to bring our understanding closer to the meaning of the Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic meanings. The originals still stand as they have through out the ages.

President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. . . . it was the will of God that they should be ordained to the ministry and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh

[Arthur Durnan]

Jesus Christ had as much to do with eccentric polygamist Joseph Smith's 19th-century Mormonism as Dictator-For-Life Fidelissimo Castro of Habana, Cuba has to do with democracy. In fact, the proper name for Mr. Smith's 19th-century-formed church is actually, "The Church of JOSEPH SMITH of Latter-day Saints" and certainly not "of Jesus Christ." The distinctions are as wide & as deep as the Grand Canyon. For starters, any person who parades around with, what, forty-seven wives - and is followed by Brigham Young's twenty-seven ladies - not only rides a cleft stick but also falls under Jesus Christ's crystal-clear adminition in Matthew Chapter 19 re the heinous sin of adultery plumb & plain. And as I stated, these are only starters in the downward plunge of Mr. Smith's 19th-century holiday from biblical logic.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

THREE CHEERS FOR SAMUEL ALITO!

KENNEDY FOR LIFEGUARD!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[ayin jade]

CARM makes several radical claims about my faith. The majority of these claims are lies; the remaining are distortions. How about you ASK a Mormon what they believe, instead of telling them what they believe? I am not officially a Mormon as yet, but this makes my blood boil. You have ZERO interest in gaining knowledge about our faith. Instead of asking us, you copy and paste nothing but lies and expect to prove something.

I live in an area with a majority population of mormons. I am quite familiar with their beliefs. As you said, you are still learning. Many of these teachings dont come out until you are well intrenched in it.

[EricH]

This topic is really more approprate to the apologetics forum, rather than the welcome forum

[Inti]

So your a Morom? And its not because you can have more than one wife?

Yea right!

[angels4u]

LD student,

Why did you come this Christian board?

You seem to have all the answers?

Do you think you win people here over to become Mormons?????

What you are doing here is promoting a cult, someday you will bow your knee and tell Jesus that He is Lord, there will come a day that you wish you had followed the Bible instead of man made rules.

I'm not judging you-God gave us all a free will all I can do is tell you is to read the Bible only and you WILL find who you should serve.

Thats all I have to say about it because arguiying forth and back doesn't help.

[Guest LDStudent]

Awwww and I thought I did such a good job of explaining the canon of the scripture to you in my PM. Actually, the Apocrypha was only added to the scripture in the 16th century by the Catholic church and a few of it's clones. Most Protestant groups as well as the Anabaptists have never accepted the apocrypha, as I demonstrated in my PM to you. I don't think that any of us have said that any particular translation is inerrant, rather, the scriptures in there original manuscripts were inerrant, and that we have 5366 manuscript copies of the NT from various people, times and places. Some are complete, some are not. Some in good shape, some are not. But though they are from many different groups and regions, they are all virtually identical. In the 20, 000 lines of the Greek New Testament, there are only 40 lines, 400 words, that are in any way questioned. One half of one percent. Most of these 400 words are grammatical. Our translations are sometimes corrected to bring our understanding closer to the meaning of the Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic meanings. The originals still stand as they have through out the ages.

I disagree. You interpret a lone verse in Revelation to support your Sola Scriptura view, despite the fact that the Bible did not exist when Revelation was written. Clearly, the verse is speaking exclusively of Revelation. Nowhere in the Bible does it state the Canon is closed. I once believed that, until I realized how absurd it is. Besides, the Book of Mormon is not the Bible; it is another Testament: an account of another people and their dealings with the Lord. Therefore, nobody was adding to the Bible. So even if the verse in Revelation means what you claim it means, it does not apply to the Book of Mormon.

As Jesus Himself said, And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. (John 10:16) So tell me, WHO are the "other sheep"? The Book of Mormon is the word of God. Period.

Right, that's why the JW's, Seventh Day Adventists, and others were considered false religions. Because their prophecies never came true. A few of them repented and tried to come more in line with scripture. Others just tried to spiritualize the lie and went futher into heresy.

Joseph Smith's opinion that Christ would return during the 19th century was exactly that: AN OPINION. It was not a Prophecy.

Verily, thus saith the Lord:Those words make it a prophecy if it was future and if he died, it was a false prophecy.

It was a command given by God.

Not all revelations are prophecies.

He expects us to live each day as though it were our last

Um... yeah. That is my point.

So your a Morom? And its not because you can have more than one wife?

Yea right!

Thank you so much for your thoughtful welcome.

[Guest LDStudent]

I live in an area with a majority population of mormons. I am quite familiar with their beliefs. As you said, you are still learning. Many of these teachings dont come out until you are well intrenched in it.

I used to be an Anti-Mormon. I am well versed in Anti-Mormon tactics, many of which have been demonstrated here. Such as: lying, copying and pasting, providing no scriptural references, ignoring my replies, etc.

LD student,

Why did you come this Christian board?

You seem to have all the answers?

Do you think you win people here over to become Mormons?????

What you are doing here is promoting a cult, someday you will bow your knee and tell Jesus that He is Lord, there will come a day that you wish you had followed the Bible instead of man made rules.

I am a Christian. Jesus is my Savior and the Lord of my life. How many times must I repeat this before you will accept it?

I'm not judging you-

Of course you are; please do not lie to me. You said I'm going to hell. Therefore, you are claiming the ability to read my heart.

God gave us all a free will all I can do is tell you is to read the Bible only and you WILL find who you should serve.

I have read the entire Bible.

Thats all I have to say about it because arguiying forth and back doesn't help.

It also doesn't help to be mocked and insulted on a "Christian" web site. However, I must thank you. How come? Well, all of you have reminded me how hypocritical so-called "Evangelical Christians" can be.

Jesus said, Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. I do not see any good fruit here. By contrast, I see nothing but good fruit at my ward. Never before have I tasted judgement from my Mormon friends - even when I persecuted them. I see Christ manifested more in their lives than in any other people I've met; that is because the LDS Church is the Lord's true Church. It is quite simple: Joseph Smith was a Prophet, the Book of Mormon is true, and the Church is true. That is why God is leading me to join them.

I'm a patient man, but I can see my welcome here has worn out.

Edited January 12, 2006 by LDStudent