The Remnant of Jacob

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Mrs Mac,

First I agree with what Yod said.

The remnant that is saved must be the believing ones who go into the Millenium after His coming. The remnant cannot be identified now, as far as I can tell.

I just can't imagine Jesus coming and NOT including the Jews (those He came to save the first time but was rejected by them) in the resurrection/rapture. Nowhere does it appear that ANYONE will be saved AFTER the rapture occurs. Jesus is now building His church (the bride), and it will be perfect, that is NO ONE will be missing from it, and it will be a Holy church, beautiful in every way and Jew and Gentile are all included.

Fairly recently I saw an article where ALL the tribes of Jacob had been accounted for IN ISRAEL and in the world yet scattered. Ironically there seemed to be no lineage from King David - and I know why, because Jesus is the inheritor of his throne and indeed Jesus is now sitting on the throne.

The remnant of Israel can't be the ones who believe in Jesus now because that makes them the church where we are all one in Christ.

We gentiles have been joined and are being joined together WITH ISRAEL, even right now to do service in the Kingdom of God, where there is neither Greek nor Jew nor male or female. God is NOT a respector of people. But this is not saying God is finished with the Jews, they STILL have a day coming where as Romans 11 says "All Israel shall be saved." There will be a day when "the fulness of the gentiles be come in (to the Kingdom of God)" and there shall also be a day soon thereafter where there shall be the fulness of the Jews brought into the Kingdom of God. Please Read Romans 11.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Adstar]

I believe that there are different remanats refered to in scripture.

Romans 11

1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3"LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life"? 4But what does the divine response say to him? "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal."[2] 5Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Paul spoke of himself as a remnant and he also spoke of a future remnant too.

Romans 9

24even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25As He says also in Hosea:

"I will call them My people, who were not My people,

And her beloved, who was not beloved."

26"And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,

"You are not My people,'

There they shall be called sons of the living God."

27Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:[10]

"Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,

The remnant will be saved.

28For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,

Because the LORD will make a short work upon the earth."

I believe the remnant talked off in Zachariah also refers to the same remnant.

Zechariah 14:2

For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Revelation 11

3And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."

4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 5And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[3] Lord was crucified.

What does Paul say in Romans 9 notice the reference to Sodom

Romans 9

29And as Isaiah said before:

"Unless the LORD of Sabaoth[12] had left us a seed,

We would have become like Sodom,

And we would have been made like Gomorrah."[13]

revelations talks of 144000 are they the remnant ?

Revelation 14

1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Mrs Mac]

Yod......

So there is no misunderstanding, I emphatically agree that we are all one in Christ, ok?

OK!

But there is a fundamental flaw in that statement. The "church" began as the remnant of Israel

First time I have ever heard that. Why do you call the Jews who received Christ as a remnant, the Bible doesn't? Or does it?

Paul describes the church as a hidden mystery in the Old Testament. The jews wondered how God was going to fulfill the scriptures about the gentiles being joined to Israel.

The church was a mystery, Paul revealed it to them.

The point is this; The church is gentiles joined with the remnant of Israel....there has always been a jewish remnant though the gentile church tried to remove them

Sorry, I can't see this. The Gentiles and Jews came together as one new man in Christ. This is individual Gentiles and individual Jews who make up the church. The nation Israel is not involved in the political sense in which you speak.

I have come to recognize that the disagreement between you and I (in various forums) is concerning the role of jews in the church today. For some reason you seem to believe that jews should stop being jewish if they want to be in the church? Please feel free to correct me if that is a wrong assessment of your position.

I do not believe that Jews need to give up their Jewish culture, but I do believe they need to give up their Jewish religion of Judaism which is a religion without Christ.I have no problem with Jews being Jews, just don't try to make me be one.

Praise the Lord and pass the ham!

Strangely enough, I wouldn't touch ham or even bacon with a ten foot pole. :upsided:

[Mrs Mac]

Dad Ernie.......

I just can't imagine Jesus coming and NOT including the Jews (those He came to save the first time but was rejected by them) in the resurrection/rapture. Nowhere does it appear that ANYONE will be saved AFTER the rapture occurs. Jesus is now building His church (the bride), and it will be perfect, that is NO ONE will be missing from it, and it will be a Holy church, beautiful in every way and Jew and Gentile are all included.

Are you talking about saved or unsaved Jews?

I agree that the church is made up of Jews and Gentiles, if I indicated otherwise, I am sorry. I like to keep individuals and nations separate because only individuals can be saved (as far as I know) at this point in time anyway. When I was talking about a remnant, I can't see one nationally right now but I can at the Second Advent.

I hope that makes sense to you.

Fairly recently I saw an article where ALL the tribes of Jacob had been accounted for IN ISRAEL and in the world yet scattered. Ironically there seemed to be no lineage from King David - and I know why, because Jesus is the inheritor of his throne and indeed Jesus is now sitting on the throne.

That is very interesting, thanks for sharing it.

.

We gentiles have been joined and are being joined together WITH ISRAEL, even right now to do service in the Kingdom of God, where there is neither Greek nor Jew nor male or female. God is NOT a respector of people. But this is not saying God is finished with the Jews, they STILL have a day coming where as Romans 11 says "All Israel shall be saved." There will be a day when "the fulness of the gentiles be come in (to the Kingdom of God)" and there shall also be a day soon thereafter where there shall be the fulness of the Jews brought into the Kingdom of God. Please Read Romans 11.

I don't see "we gentiles being joined together with Israel" Israel is in spiritual darkness, how can we work together? Individual gentiles and individual Jews can work together in the Kingdom of God as long as that Kingdom is established in the hearts of both.

I know God has not cast His people away, if He did we would never be able to trust any of His other promises. I am not anti Jew, but our place together in the church can only be "in Christ"

I get the feeling that some of you think that Jews don't need to come to salvation through the blood of Jesus. That they get in by some other way because they are God's chosen people.

[Guest yod]

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[traveller]

As a lurker here, I just wanted to take the time to tell you guys that I am enjoying this thread very much. I appreciate the time each of you are putting into it. This is one of my very favorites! Well done!

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Mrs. Mac,

First time I have ever heard that. Why do you call the Jews who received Christ as a remnant, the Bible doesn't? Or does it?

Please read the following carefully:

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

Romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Paul here is identifying himself with the "remnant" of Israel. This can be said of all the Apostles and all the Jews living at that time who believed in Christ.

Early on in the Apostles ministry, it was primarily to the Jews which they ministered. Once Paul came on the scene after his conversion, God designated HIM as the Apostle to the Gentiles. Before this Peter appears to be the one heading the outreach of the Gospel, and you may recall that he initially avoided the gentiles until Paul upbraided him.

So the early church was mostly Jews and it is with them and their forefathers that we (gentiles) join together in service to God in the Kingdom of God.

Take a close look at this verse:

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

It is the GENTILES that were once wild, from a DIFFERENT Olive Tree. The TRUE BELIEVING JEW is regrafted BACK into the Olive Tree which was once the sole property of them. GENTILES ARE THE ONES THAT ARE DIFFERENT. The Jews were hanging on that Olive Tree long before we came along. But understand that ALL who claim to be Israel are NOT Israel. Only those of the faith of Abraham are the TRUE JEWS, the NATURAL BRANCHES.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Mrs Mac]

Well, Yod and Dad Ernie. I have read Romans 11 many times and "remnant" did not stand out to me. Thank you, I will study that further.

In your thinking, is the "remnant" part of the church or not?

Yod, you are a sweetie. Do you know that a pig has the same kind of digestive system as a human ? In other words, it is what it eats. That is why I don't eat it, nothing to do with the Torah, except I believe that God knew what He was talking about health wise when He forbade it.

I believe that is why the natives in New Zealand eat so much pork. They used to eat human flesh at one time and it has that sweetish taste. Well, I think that is what human flesh would taste like. Pork! Sweetish! Ugh!

[Mrs Mac]

Well, Yod and Dad Ernie. I have read Romans 11 many times and "remnant" did not stand out to me. Thank you, I will study that further.

In your thinking, is the "remnant" part of the church or not?

Yod, you are a sweetie. Do you know that a pig has the same kind of digestive system as a human ? In other words, it is what it eats. That is why I don't eat it, nothing to do with the Torah, except I believe that God knew what He was talking about health wise when He forbade it.

I believe that is why the natives in New Zealand eat so much pork. They used to eat human flesh at one time and it has that sweetish taste. Well, I think that is what human flesh would taste like. Pork! Sweetish! Ugh!

[Guest yod]

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