Churches

[King James Bible Study]

The title for this topic, "Churches - which ones are going to hell", is not about buildings or structures, not even about organizations: churches don't go anywhere, people do. Churches, however, are a collective term for the people who embrace them. So the title is abstract. This discussion is not. It's about people.

I have not been a Christian for a long period of time, but I've been alive for nearly fifty years. Like you, I've seen the bad stuff, from violence to the more subtle forms of death...such as lies and cheats, etc. I only mention the age-thing because I'm more qualified to give my own human insight into churches, than I am qualified as a Christian to speak on the subject. However, it was as a human that I was called to Almighty God. I did not become Christian, then human. And as this might seem a worthless point, I submit that it is the heart of every call to Christ...that we, seeing our own infirmities and those around us, have it already in our hearts to want what is better and more meaningful. The difference between those that answer the call, and those who do not, is not whether or not the desire is there...it's whether it is more meaningful than the other desires they harbor, also. You can, as a Christian, make the mistake of leaning toward desires that are false in their value, just as you can run toward the desires that lead to the treasures of God.

That's why I chose the title. Churches have, in their collection of people, a wealth of desires of every shape and form. The people hold love, hate, fear, anger, empathy, and you name it. They've got it. Churches do not differ from one another in that way. And, as well, they all hold this: individuals who will lean toward false treasures, and individuals who will run toward God's treasures. To apply any label on a Church, is by assignment of that label, assignment to all it's people...and it is presumptuous as well. It presumes that God does not see the human heart or the Christian soul. In fact, to presume is an act of inserting our own eyes over the eyes of God. We say, in affect, that we know more that God Almighty, and in so doing, make fools out of ourselves.

If churches were the center of the Christianity, Christ would not have come to shed his blood for individuals. He would have hung on the cross and said, "I shed my blood for the Baptist Church, the Catholic Church..." or whatever church of the day. But he didn't do that. The point of the crucifixion was toward humans, like the criminal on the cross beside Christ.

[Clio]

KJBS -

I love it! You get it!

ALL churches are going to hell. It is the believers in True Jesus who have a heart-committed relationship with Him who will be taking the ride Home when Jesus is in the skies over our planet.

It's about relationship not religion.

The time of churches being on the side of Abba in this rather protracted civil war is ending. The Bible tells us in many places that the at the end, the still living portion of the Lamb's Bride is made up of the remnant believers from all denominations. Those who have a fully surrendered relationship filled with the fruit of the spirit and obedience from a loving heart.

A remnant is a very small thing. Very.

Kinda goes with the prophecy that men will be as scarce as fine gold at the end.

Clio

Edited January 24, 2006 by Clio

[50_Cent's_dog]

The title for this topic, "Churches - which ones are going to hell", is not about buildings or structures, not even about organizations: churches don't go anywhere, people do. Churches, however, are a collective term for the people who embrace them. So the title is abstract. This discussion is not. It's about people.

I have not been a Christian for a long period of time, but I've been alive for nearly fifty years. Like you, I've seen the bad stuff, from violence to the more subtle forms of death...such as lies and cheats, etc. I only mention the age-thing because I'm more qualified to give my own human insight into churches, than I am qualified as a Christian to speak on the subject. However, it was as a human that I was called to Almighty God. I did not become Christian, then human. And as this might seem a worthless point, I submit that it is the heart of every call to Christ...that we, seeing our own infirmities and those around us, have it already in our hearts to want what is better and more meaningful. The difference between those that answer the call, and those who do not, is not whether or not the desire is there...it's whether it is more meaningful than the other desires they harbor, also. You can, as a Christian, make the mistake of leaning toward desires that are false in their value, just as you can run toward the desires that lead to the treasures of God.

That's why I chose the title. Churches have, in their collection of people, a wealth of desires of every shape and form. The people hold love, hate, fear, anger, empathy, and you name it. They've got it. Churches do not differ from one another in that way. And, as well, they all hold this: individuals who will lean toward false treasures, and individuals who will run toward God's treasures. To apply any label on a Church, is by assignment of that label, assignment to all it's people...and it is presumptuous as well. It presumes that God does not see the human heart or the Christian soul. In fact, to presume is an act of inserting our own eyes over the eyes of God. We say, in affect, that we know more that God Almighty, and in so doing, make fools out of ourselves.

If churches were the center of the Christianity, Christ would not have come to shed his blood for individuals. He would have hung on the cross and said, "I shed my blood for the Baptist Church, the Catholic Church..." or whatever church of the day. But he didn't do that. The point of the crucifixion was toward humans, like the criminal on the cross beside Christ.

John 3:3 Jesus said," I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is Born Again. The book of John is full of information

[50_Cent's_dog]

KJBS -

I love it! You get it!

ALL churches are going to hell. It is the believers in True Jesus who have a heart-committed relationship with Him who will be taking the ride Home when Jesus is in the skies over our planet.

It's about relationship not religion.

The time of churches being on the side of Abba in this rather protracted civil war is ending. The Bible tells us in many places that the at the end, the still living portion of the Lamb's Bride is made up of the remnant believers from all denominations. Those who have a fully surrendered relationship filled with the fruit of the spirit and obedience from a loving heart.

A remnant is a very small thing. Very.

Kinda goes with the prophecy that men will be as scarce as fine gold at the end.

Clio

Do you believe what Jesus said in John 3:3 You must be Born Again to get to heaven? Is that the only way?

[King James Bible Study]

KJBS -

I love it! You get it!

ALL churches are going to hell. It is the believers in True Jesus who have a heart-committed relationship with Him who will be taking the ride Home when Jesus is in the skies over our planet.

It's about relationship not religion.

The time of churches being on the side of Abba in this rather protracted civil war is ending. The Bible tells us in many places that the at the end, the still living portion of the Lamb's Bride is made up of the remnant believers from all denominations. Those who have a fully surrendered relationship filled with the fruit of the spirit and obedience from a loving heart.

A remnant is a very small thing. Very.

Kinda goes with the prophecy that men will be as scarce as fine gold at the end.

Clio

Thanks Clio, your reply brought a tear to my eye.

I perceive of my relationship with Abba from human eyes. What I mean is, I've learned through human relationships that loyalty is the heart of trust, trust is the heart of relationship. Faithful is another word that applies. Those qualities are longsuffering, courageous, blind to ambition, and selfless, yet they uphold the one who embraces them.

There are laws to the universe that are akin to gravity. Don't laugh. You can't touch them, smell them, taste, or whatever. One that I think about alot, is the law of honesty (which is akin to loyalty). You can't taste honesty, or smell it. You can't spot it in your telescope. But honesty is a force. I has power, assigned by God Almighty. Just as the "Word" is assigned by God, and holds power unseen.

Tell the truth to a liar, and then watch the liar's eyes. There is recognition. A fear creeps into the liar's eyes. The eyes narrow. And the liar can't wait to get away.

Tell the truth to a truthful person, and watch the righteous eyes open with delight.

Both kinds of eyes are in every church, every family (probably).

Be kind, thoughtful, and tennacious in your belief that God Almighty is greater than all things.

KJBS

[Clio]

Do you believe what Jesus said in John 3:3 You must be Born Again to get to heaven? Is that the only way?

Yes. Do you?

There is no other way, and it's all tied up in the Blood Covenant, sealed with proxy blood for 5000 years and finally, once and for all, on Calvary, when the Only Begotten Son of the Most High, yielded His Blood as the final and eternal sealing of that covenant.

In order to be born again, one must believe in all that Jesus accomplished with the spilling of His Blood.

1. It brought us into a Covenant relationship with the Most High.

2. It made it possible for us to be partakers of His Nature, just as He became a partaker in ours when He put on humanity.

3. It made us literally a child of Abba Father, just as Jesus is.

4. It is the mechanism by which Grace operates, allowing Abba to be both merciful and just without paradox.

If any doubts this, I can post a great deal more on this topic, reams even... but it would be best if you purchased the book the Blood Covenant by H. Clay Trumball.

It's particularly nice, because he places each and every text from the Bible at the bottom of the page you're reading. You can actually read the text and it's context as you study.

Clio

[Guest Elijah From Paradise]

People fail and they are unable to overcome sin in their life, and this is exactly why they need Jesus.

When I was yet a boy, I died in a drownding accident and was taken up into Paradise. After going through the judgment, I saw millions, a great army of souls, assembling under the alter. They were all chanting, "Don't send him back! Send us! Send us! We must avenge our blood on the earth! We must avenge our blood!"

When I asked what was going on the Lord said to me, "They protest. Yet they know that I am not willing that any man should perish." I was just wishing I could tell everyone all about Paradise being so real, and then I personally volunteered to be sent back to the earth! That was in 1952, and I was twelve years old at the time.

In 1967, I heard about Jesus Christ from a teenage girl. Her dad was writing a book, and she told me all about the death of Christ and his return. After being asked if I wanted to go into town and check it out for myself, I prayed on it, seeking permission to attend the First Baptist Church in Sarasota Florida. The Lord said this was alright, and so I went into town and "heard the message" about Christ being sent to provide a way back to the Lord God and his throne. It hit me like a ton of bricks - but there were so many "weird people" in that church, it troubled me greatly. As you put it, I could see that a great many of them were simply pretending; it was like about half of the congregation had showed up that Sunday, just to see thier friends, or to show of their new dress or a new suit, or a new hat! I studied the whole thing very intently, and finally found a lady named Mrs. Strock, that I felt like I could speak to. So I asked her, "What do you call a person who is "just pretending," or a person who doesn't really have a relationship going with God, but they want every one else to think that they do."

She immediately replied, "Oh! We call those people hypocrites!"

I responded, "Well this place is absolutely full of them!"

As soon as I got back home, I began praying about what I had experienced. When the Lord "came on line," I asked Him very thoughtfully if He was sure that He wanted me to go to that church. He immediately replied, "Why yes! What is wrong. What happened to you there?"

I quickly told him that the place was absolutely crawling with hypocrites! At that, he quitely replied . . . "Oh! I see. So all those hypocrites are more important to you than I am."

When He said that to me, I almost chocked. "Oh no. Oh no . . . I am never going to put any hypocrite inbetween you and me!" I said. "From now on, I am going to go right on just like there wasn't a hypocrite in the whole place! That's what I'm going to do! I'm just going to look at everyone there, just like they are "all the same."

"Very good!" He said, and then I heard him almost whisper under His breath - "That's exactly what I always do."

I can tell you for absolute sure, after that experience, I never had any more problem with putting any of my attention on any hypocrite, and I always tried to see them all, as if every last one of them was truly saved.

Edited July 14, 2006 by Elijah From Paradise

[germanJoy]

A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. Galatians 5:9

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!... Matthew 23:25

And Jesus said to them. "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Matthew 16:6

Beware of the leaven of the hypocrites!

[Leonard]

Elijah: That was just TOOOOOO COOL! If it is not too inconvenient for you, I should very much like for you to pm me with a detailed account of your visit to glory.

[st. Worm]

The title for this topic, "Churches - which ones are going to hell", is not about buildings or structures, not even about organizations: churches don't go anywhere, people do. Churches, however, are a collective term for the people who embrace them. So the title is abstract. This discussion is not. It's about people.

I have not been a Christian for a long period of time, but I've been alive for nearly fifty years. Like you, I've seen the bad stuff, from violence to the more subtle forms of death...such as lies and cheats, etc. I only mention the age-thing because I'm more qualified to give my own human insight into churches, than I am qualified as a Christian to speak on the subject. However, it was as a human that I was called to Almighty God. I did not become Christian, then human. And as this might seem a worthless point, I submit that it is the heart of every call to Christ...that we, seeing our own infirmities and those around us, have it already in our hearts to want what is better and more meaningful. The difference between those that answer the call, and those who do not, is not whether or not the desire is there...it's whether it is more meaningful than the other desires they harbor, also. You can, as a Christian, make the mistake of leaning toward desires that are false in their value, just as you can run toward the desires that lead to the treasures of God.

That's why I chose the title. Churches have, in their collection of people, a wealth of desires of every shape and form. The people hold love, hate, fear, anger, empathy, and you name it. They've got it. Churches do not differ from one another in that way. And, as well, they all hold this: individuals who will lean toward false treasures, and individuals who will run toward God's treasures. To apply any label on a Church, is by assignment of that label, assignment to all it's people...and it is presumptuous as well. It presumes that God does not see the human heart or the Christian soul. In fact, to presume is an act of inserting our own eyes over the eyes of God. We say, in affect, that we know more that God Almighty, and in so doing, make fools out of ourselves.

If churches were the center of the Christianity, Christ would not have come to shed his blood for individuals. He would have hung on the cross and said, "I shed my blood for the Baptist Church, the Catholic Church..." or whatever church of the day. But he didn't do that. The point of the crucifixion was toward humans, like the criminal on the cross beside Christ.

Why was it the top priority of the Apostles to set up new churches throughout the regions? Why did Jesus himself give such great authority to the church during his earthly ministry and through his written Word? Why is the church the bride of Christ? If the church is so irrelevent then why is the church so important in the eyes of God?

sw