Legalism

[Guest Calamity]

How about legalism. Has anyone been involved in that? I have, and after reading a post here a few minutes ago, I don't know whether to cry or just shake.

What is it, that causes people to be so condemining, critical, ridiculing and outright HATEFUL to their brothers and sisters in Christ? What is it? We have enough work to do with the unsaved, without getting hyper-critical of each other because of differences in belief that have nothing to do with the main fundamentals of salvation.

I think I feel sick.

[Catsmeow]

Uh, Calamity...I had once privately shared this with Wisdom...so he knows. But now I'll just say it..I was very legalistic and rigid at one point.

I'm still conservative and will fight like a bear on some issues, (like the "nudity thread" and core issues of Christianity) but legalism...like the one we're both thinking of...is real scarey.

It IS harsh and critical. Ask Nebula. She's come from a very judgemental and harsh environment and just bristles when she sees it.

I understand it so I just shrug it off....NO, I'm not excusing or approving it; I just understand it. Just as I understand how and why people get addicted to drugs.

Some people become legalist because their original motive was good...they were zealous for the Word and to be obedient. They simply lack balance; that's all.

THEN...there's some who are legalistic because along with a harsh and critical spirit they are reflecting their own insecurities and possibly refecting their own personal experiences with critical parents or spouses.

People are carrying a whole lotta baggage. Some DO escape legalism. Some make it beyond legalism without compromising the faith.

For those who are zealous, you just have to show them how they can unload that burden *(legalism) without compromising obedience. They don't have a handle of the balance Christians need in order to love the sinner but hate the sin.

They also don't see that they're comparing themselves to others...I didn't see it. I didn't realize what I was doing. It was pride. But if I could have seen it for what it was, I'd have stopped sooner.

I suspect that most people who are prideful don't realize they are. They see it as being devoted to Christ (well, I did anyway) but I was shown by our Father that I was, in fact, being prideful.

He still shows me this at times and I have to self examine my own heart and motives. It hurts. But...we all need to do it.

We really need to read 1st Timothy (Ch.1) ....the Law is GOOD IF used properly..the motives for obedience must be generated from a pure heart ...

This is where the legalist is struggling. He/she's comparing himself to others and hasn't gotten past that yet.

Don't give up hope....we can overcome it. God helped me by humbling me into the GROUND! I ate more humble pie than I thought was humanly possible...but oh, boy...after that painful pruning, I was a new person!

[tsth]

And then sometimes, obedience can be confused with legalism. It depends on the heart of the matter. The one walking, and the one observing. It just depends sometimes.

:il:

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Bill]

I posted this in another thread, and thought it was worthy here too. I'm going to add a little to it also.

When you break away all the "stuff" that we learn in our churches, the core elements are all the same. We believe the inspiration of scripture, the 66 books of the bible. We believe God is the one who created us, and that through Adam the whole human race fell into sin. Jesus came to earth, fully man yet fully God, and atoned for that sin by dying on the cross and has risen again (just like the OT said He would) and ascended to be at the right hand of God. And the Holy Spirit is in the world, convicting, regenerating, and drawing men to God, and enabling believers with power to share the Gospel, etc.

Really, at our core we are all the same. It's the other "stuff" that seems to cause so much problems. And satan knows that, so it comes up and the next thing ya know, our pride gets in the way and we've got conflict going on.

I don't propose EVER being one big pile of mush for Jesus, but I see a unity in the faith at our core beliefs that, if we keep that in mind, should be the thing that helps us deal with our "disagreements" much better.

To me, it comes down to pride. "I have it figured out and I know it all and you are a heretic!" I hear so much of that in this community here, especially directed at my church (we are a large, full-gospel, pentecostal type church, the largest in our area), and there are some on these boards who like to say that too. We have to recognize our uniqueness, our giftings, etc. (what works in my new church would never work in my old one, and vice versa) and work TOGETHER, because we are, at our core, one body.

[Lanakila]

I also come from a very legalistic background as a Christian. My faith group that I came from prides themselves on how very conservative they are. It took a long time to break away from that and embrace the liberty we have in Christ. We may have swung a little too far to the liberty side (I don't think so though) out of defiance to the junk theology we were escaping. Legalism binds a person, both in pride and fear. Pride in your own actions, as fear that you aren't quite living up to the standard (law unto yourself) that you and your group have self-inposed. God used a very excellent book in helping us to free ourselves from the bondage of legalism. It's title is: The Pharisees Guide To Total Holiness. Yes the title is sarcastic, but that is the point. Legalism creates a bunch of lost religious people IMOE.

Also, the only thing legalism does for you is make you obsolete as far as evangelism purposes go. This form of bondage is so ridiculous that the world just laughs and says look how stupid the Christians are being. Meanwhile you get puffed up at the persecution for "the faith" you seem to be getting. When all along the persecution and laughter has nothing to do with Jesus or the faith at all, and is entirely based on the prideful legalism.

I might add that legalism is spiritual immaturity. Setting up laws makes it easier to do what is right than trusting the Holy Spirits guidance. The legalism of the OT was trumped by the liberty the Jesus gives in the New. Not that this liberty is an excuse to sin (Paul would say God forbid), but that we are not under the law, but under grace.

[Adstar]

Hi Clamity

Romans 14

The Weak and the Strong

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:

" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,

'every knee will bow before me;

every tongue will confess to God.' " 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[2] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

Do not loose heart Sister :il: Be strong

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[nebula]

It IS harsh and critical. Ask Nebula. She's come from a very judgemental and harsh environment and just bristles when she sees it.

Wow! No need to ask me - you did a great job describing it yourself!

I kind-of wonder, though, if legalism is just another form of "selfism." We're still looking to our own merit rather than totally resting in and on the Lord. Do we trust the Holy Spirit to convict people, or do we think it is up to us to make the person understand? Do we think we still have to be "perfect" to do any good, to please the Lord, to merit the Kingdom?

[Guest Calamity]

Thank you all for the replies.

[Catsmeow]

To me, it comes down to pride.

[Catsmeow]

I might add that legalism is spiritual immaturity. Setting up laws makes it easier to do what is right than trusting the Holy Spirits guidance.

Lana: This is so true and I couldn't agree more.