hi all :) i am a muslim man ... am i welcomed here ?

[Guest Hani_]

calling jesus lord .. doesnt make him GOd in bible

many men were called lord in bible's old testement

[ayin jade]

Jesus accepted worship. No man of God did that.

The bible tells us that we are not to worship false Gods, yet Jesus accepted worship.

When you read the Gospels carefully you will find that

consistently

* Jesus talks like he is God,

* Jesus acts like he is God,

* Jesus gives evidence for claiming this authority rightfully

by performing miraculous signs.

[Guest Kilad]

Muhammad, a supposed prophet of Allah, denies God

[Guest yod]

salaam alekim Hani

I think my friends might be taking too strong an approach with you. I'm not sure how fighting over the trinity doctrine will help someone who has not seen the Light first.

Yes, there is one true God. On this we agree.

Is God limited in what He can do?

[Guest Hani_]

hello to everybody

thanx yod for ur nice way of speaking ....

we muslims cherish jesus peace on him and mary peace on her

and jesus was one of GOd's miracles to human kind ...

and we believe jesus will return soon ... our prophet (pbuh) even told us when exactly

read what GOd says about jesus and mary in holy Quran :

[002:087] We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!

[002:136] Say ye: "We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to God (in Islam)."

002:253] Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them God spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If God had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If God had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but God Fulfilleth His plan.

[003:045] Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;

[003:055] Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

[003:059] The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

[004:163] We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.

[005:046] And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.

[003:036] When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"- and God knew best what she brought forth- "And no wise is the male Like the female. I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."

[003:037] Right graciously did her Lord accept her: He made her grow in purity and beauty: To the care of Zakariya was she assigned. Every time that he entered (Her) chamber to see her, He found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Mary! Whence (comes) this to you?" She said: "From God: for God Provides sustenance to whom He pleases without measure."

[003:042] Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.

[003:043] "O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."

[004:156] That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;

now... as u can see ...

muslims are not like the jews who curse jesus and mary peace on them ...

and say that jesus was demon possesed and magician

and we dont say mary had jesus from adultry like jews ....

and this is the testimony of jesus in judgement day in Quran :

[005:116] And behold! God will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

[5:117] "I told them only what You commanded me to say, that: `You shall worship GOD, my Lord and your Lord.' I was a witness among them for as long as I lived with them. When You terminated my life on earth, You became the Watcher over them. You witness all things.

..............

so as u can see ... islam stands clear about who is jesus and who is the one who sent him

i wanted to make a general introduction about who is jesus in islam

i will open threads inshallah by the will of GOd

for the subjects i would like to discuss with u in this forum

and may GOd guide us all

no guider but he

[ayin jade]

If your quran tells you to "believe in God, and the revelation given to us", why do you not believe in the bible? For the bible speaks over and over again of the promised Messiah, and Jesus as the Son of God, part of the Trinity of God.

I would like to know what your thoughts for why Jesus accepted worship, which only God can have. The bible clearly shows that Jesus accepted worship. How can Jesus forgive sins when only God can forgive sins? That shows Jesus is nor merely man, but God.

One thing I find troubling in the quran is this: Mariam the mother of

[ayin jade]

1. Mark 2:1-12--Jesus heals a paralytic. He had authority to forgive sins, which is something only God Himself can do. Then, to authenticate His claim, He demonstrated His power by healing the paralytic.

2. The miracles Jesus performed are a very strong indication of His divinity (because no mere human can work actual miracles by his own power). Jesus referred to the miracles in John 10:24-39 as proof that he was telling the truth. This passage is Christ's own response to the unbelieving Jews' charge of blasphemy (dishonoring God by claiming to be God). Incidentally, this section also includes a beautiful promise that once you are saved/born again/become a Christian, you can never lose your salvation. Verses 28-29 say we will "never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." (Here is another strong statement that He is God.) We can have the assurance of eternal security because we didn't earn salvation in the first place; it is a free gift (Ephesians 2:8,9).

3. During Christ's trial, the chief priests asked Him point blank, "Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." And He said,

"I am." (Mark 14:60-62)

"Yes, it is as you say." (Matt. 26: 63-65)

"You are right in saying I am." (Luke 22:67-70)

These are all ways of saying the same thing, written by different authors.

In John's gospel, he recounts Jesus' interview with Pontius Pilate (John 18:33-37). Pilate wanted to know if He were the King of the Jews. Jesus then talked about how His kingdom was not of this world. Pilate said, "You are a king, then!" Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king..." The truth is, he is King of the whole universe.

4. Jesus says in John 10:11-18 that he is the Good Shepherd. When you read this passage along with Ezekiel 34:1-16, you can see that Jesus was identifying Himself with God, who pronounced Himself Shepherd over Israel. The Jewish people, being an agrarian and shepherding society, knew and dearly loved this section of the Old Testament because God was using a metaphor they lived every day. So when Jesus said, "I am the Good Shepherd," and that whole John passage so clearly parallels the Ezekiel passage, there was no doubt that He was claiming to be God.

5. John 4:25-26. This is where the Samaritan woman, whom Jesus went to meet at the well, gets into a discussion of "living water" with Jesus. He pinpoints her sinful lifestyle (knowledge He would not have had as a mere human passerby), then He admits that He is the long-awaited Messiah: "I who speak to you am He."

6. John 16:28. "I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father." What Christ is saying here is that he existed along with the Father before being born. He "entered the world" by wrapping Himself in human flesh and being born as a baby. He grew up, fulfilled His mission/ministry, was crucified and raised from the dead (all part of the "mission") and then left the world to go back to the Father in heaven, where He is now seated at the right hand of God (the place of honor). He is the only person who ever existed before conception. That Christ was in a "pre-incarnate state" means that He is God.

7. First, turn to Exodus 3, where Moses encounters God in the burning bush. God tells Moses that he is the one He has chosen to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. Moses says to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me 'What is His name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God replies to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God has said that His own name, His personal name, is "I AM."

Now...

a) Turn to John 8:56-58. Jesus is talking to the unbelieving Jews. "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing My day; he saw it and was glad." "You are not yet 50 years old," they said to Him, "and you have seen Abraham?" "I tell you the truth," Jesus announced, "before Abraham was, I AM!" Jesus was the great I AM from before the beginning of time; He existed before Abraham ever was. He is claiming here to be the I AM of the Old Testament. Verse 59 says the Jews picked up stones to stone Him, but the Lord Jesus slipped away. The reason they wanted to stone Him was because stoning was the death penalty for blasphemy. He was claiming to be Yahweh--Jehovah--Almighty God--I AM. (Of course, it wasn't blasphemy when Christ claimed to be who He truly was!)

b) John 8:24. "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I AM, you will indeed die in your sins." In your Bible, it may read "if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be...." The extra words are supplied by the editors; they're not in the original text. If you're familiar with Exodus 3 you don't need the extra words for it to make grammatical sense. The Lord Jesus is again claiming to be God.

c) John 18:4. In the Garden of Gethsemane, Judas and some priests and soldiers are about to take Jesus prisoner. "Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to Him, went out and asked them, 'Who is it that you want?' 'Jesus of Nazareth,' they replied. 'I AM,' Jesus said. When He said, 'I AM,' they drew back and fell to the ground." (Again, in your Bible the editors may have supplied "I am [he]" to make it grammatically correct. The Greek just says, "I AM.")

The force of Jesus' claim to be Yahweh (I AM) was so powerful that it literally knocked the arresting officers and the Jewish priests off their feet!

[ayin jade]

THE WORSHIP ISSUE

God's Word is explicit in teaching that God alone is to be "worshipped" (Ex. 34:14; Ps. 81:9; 97:7; Matt. 4:10/Luke 4:8; Rev. 19:10). We are given examples in God's Word of people who were rebuked, chastised, or judged for worshipping the creation (Zeph. 1:5; Acts 7:42; Romans 1:25), "gods" (Joshua 24; 2 Kings 17; 1 Cor. 8:5), idols (Lev. 19:4; 26:1; 1 Chr. 16:26; 2 Chron. 34:7; 1 Cor. 10:14; 1 Jn. 5:21), images (Ex. 20:4; Isa. 42:8, 17; 44:15; Jer. 8:19; Rom. 1:23; Rev. 16:2; 19:20), "relics" (2 Kings 18:4), material things (Matt. 16:26; Luke 12:20; Acts 17:29; Col. 3:5), "saints" (Matt. 17:4; Acts 10:25-26), and even angels (Col. 2:18; Rev. 19:10).

God says, "I am YHWH: that is My Name: and My glory I will not give to another ... For My own sake, even for My own sake, will I do it: for how should My Name be polluted? and I will not give My glory to another." - Isaiah 42:8 and 48:11.

With the above in mind, now read the following passages of Scripture concerning none other than Jesus Christ :

1. " ... (the wise men) saw the young child (newborn Jesus) with Mary His mother, and fell down, and worshipped Him (JESUS- not His mother!) ... " MATTHEW 2:11

2. "And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped Him ..." MATTHEW 8:2

3. "Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped Him, saying, 'It is true You are the Son of God.'" MATTHEW 14:33

4. "And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, 'All hail.' And they came and held Him by the feet, and worshipped Him." MATTHEW 28:9

5. "And when they saw Him (JESUS), they worshipped Him; but some doubted." MATTHEW 28:17

6. "But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped Him." MARK 5:6

7. "And it came to pass, while He blessed them, He was parted from them, and carried up into heaven, and they worshipped Him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy ..." LUKE 24:52

8. "And he (a 'sinner') said, 'Lord, I believe,' and he worshipped Him." JOHN 9:38

9. "And again, when (The Father) brings in the First-begotten into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him (JESUS- Psalm 148:2).'" HEBREWS 1:6

10. "And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, 'Worthy is the Lamb (JESUS) that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing, And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard, I saying, 'Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sits on the throne, and unto the Lamb (JESUS) forever and ever. And the four beasts said, 'Amen.' And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped Him that lives forever and ever." REVELATION 5:12-14

There is no way around this fact of Scripture : Jesus Christ is worshipped. God says that He will not share His glory with "another." Yet those who deny Christ's Deity must insist that He do just this, because if Jesus is worshipped but is not God Himself, then God has given His glory to "another."

This is the crux of all debates concerning the Deity of Christ : He is worshipped, and that with His Own approval and the approval of the Father. He is often worshipped by Jews in the above passages - Jews who would never deny their monotheistic faith!

So you see Hani, Jesus is Lord, God, Savior. More than man.

[Bread_of_Life]

Salem alekum Hani, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon you, and welcome to Worthy bulletin boards.

Insha-allah you will find by studying the bible that Jesus claimed to be more than a prophet of Allah:

- He said that he was the Lord of the Sabbath. (Matthew 12:8)

- He is called "Emmanuel", meaning "God with us". (Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23)

- John says of Jesus "he was before me" - how can an ordinary man have existed prior to his own birth? Surely Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega - the beginning and the end? (John 1:15)

- He claims to have the power to forgive sins (Matthew 9:2)

- He is prophesised as the "Son of God" in the Old Testament (Daniel 3:25 - King Nebuchadnezzar sees "the son of God" in his fires)

This is just a small sample - there are many evidences showing that Jesus claimed he shared in divinity with Allah - that he was part of Allah.

Alekum salem,

Nikolai

[gypc]

Is 9:6 For to us a child is born,

to us a son is given,

and the government will be on his shoulders.

And he will be called

Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,

Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

There is only one God..........if Jesus was not him, then Isaiah missed it bigtime. If Jesus was not God then he lied and should be considered a false prophet. If you say he was a good man or prophet but not God.....then to accept his testimony is accecpting a lie.

So it comes down to.....he was God in the flesh or he was a crazy man. I beleive he was God in the flesh based on the word of God.