did jesus really claim he was God the creator ?

[Guest Hani_]

hello all

i read ur replies ...

it proves my point exactly ..... , i said that .. jesus never orderd anyone to worship him as GOd the creator

and i said he never claimed to be the creator ... instead he totaly submitted to his GOd and our GOd

that's what i stated

u replied saying ... no hani ... jesus accepted worship

no hani .. jesus made miracles that only GOd can do

etc

i didnt ask for any of that ..... .

u replying with these statements ... proves that u know jesus never claimed it

instead ... u r trying by any means to make him GOd ... while all what jesus really teaches is worship my GOd and ur GOd

and u contradict urselves really

u said only GOd is worth of worshiping thats why ppl worshipped jesus

then if so .... whom did jesus worship ???

ur faith ... is corrupted ladies and gentlemen ... with all respect

u dont know who is GOd

because u dont believe in GOd

u beleive in jesus as ur GOd

while the real GOd

is the one who sent jesus

not jesus

about jesus being the son of God

thats another subject

i guess i clearly made my point

and there is only one who guides

[ayin jade]

No sorry, you didnt make your point. And you neglected all the things we asked you. Is this dialogue one sided only?

Who can forgive sins? Only God can. So how could Jesus forgive sins?

[Guest Hani_]

dear ayin ....

i understand ur fear of being wrong .....but u have to follow what jesus really teach ... not what ur own will

about jesus forgiving sins ....

jesus didnt say to the man ... " i forgave ur sins "

jesus said to him " ur sins are forgiven "

thats a very unique way of speaking called " built for the uknown "

in semetic languages like arabic and aramaic and hebrew

( i know because i am arabic )

this type of speaking in which the real forgiver is kept hidden

but only the action was revealed .... that this man's sins were forgiven

same words were said by the holy prophet of islam (pbuh)

but he warned us muslims from that saying ... " dont worship me instead of the one who sent me like christians did to my brother jesus peace on him ... but say .. ur the messanger of GOd and his servent "

i hope that fulfills it ayin

i notice that christians here are getting very nervous and starting to insult islam and mock it

while all what i done ..... past verses of what jesus said and explain them to u

i hope we can remove the hostility and continue our discussions

there is much we can share

[nebula]

Dear Hani -

Would God share His glory with another?

Philippians 2

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,

6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,

10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,

11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Revelation 5

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands,

12 saying with a loud voice: "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain To receive power and riches and wisdom, And strength and honor and glory and blessing!"

13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"

14 Then the four living creatures said, "Amen!" And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever.

[nebula]

1 Timothy 3:16 -

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

What do you suppose Paul meant by: "God was manifested in the flesh" in this passage, in context with the rest?

[Guest shiloh357]

hello all

i read ur replies ...

it proves my point exactly ..... , i said that .. jesus never orderd anyone to worship him as GOd the creator

and i said he never claimed to be the creator ... instead he totaly submitted to his GOd and our GOd

that's what i stated

Well EricH demonstrated that Jesus DID claim to be God when He called Himself "I AM."

Secondly, Jesus DID claim to be God when, in the book of Revelations, He refers to Himself as "The First and the Last." (Revelation 1:11)

Here are other places where that phrase appears:

Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. (Isaiah 41:4)

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. (Isaiah 44:6)

Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

(Isaiah 48:12)

These are three places in the Old Testament where God the creator calls Himself "the first and the last."

Now according to God the creator, He is the only one who qualifies to be "the first and the last," and no one can share this, there is no one else, no god next to him. So, for Jesus to be the "first and the last," demonstrates that Jesus was calling Himself "God." I might point out that this was AFTER Jesus had been resurrected from the dead, and had ascended to heaven. He was appearing to John the apostle on the Island of Patmos. To say that Jesus never claimed to God, simply means that you have not really studied the Bible that much. You are not really qualified to tell us what the Bible says and does not say.

about jesus being the son of God

thats another subject

No it is not "another subject." By calling Himself the "Son of God" Jesus was claiming to be God/equality with God.

Buswell correctly states that:

[Leonard]

hello all

i read ur replies ...

it proves my point exactly ..... , i said that .. jesus never orderd anyone to worship him as GOd the creator

and i said he never claimed to be the creator ... instead he totaly submitted to his GOd and our GOd

that's what i stated

u replied saying ... no hani ... jesus accepted worship

no hani .. jesus made miracles that only GOd can do

etc

i didnt ask for any of that ..... .

u replying with these statements ... proves that u know jesus never claimed it

instead ... u r trying by any means to make him GOd ... while all what jesus really teaches is worship my GOd and ur GOd

and u contradict urselves really

u said only GOd is worth of worshiping thats why ppl worshipped jesus

then if so .... whom did jesus worship ???

ur faith ... is corrupted ladies and gentlemen ... with all respect

u dont know who is GOd

because u dont believe in GOd

u beleive in jesus as ur GOd

while the real GOd

is the one who sent jesus

not jesus

about jesus being the son of God

thats another subject

i guess i clearly made my point

and there is only one who guides

Well Hani, Jesus said we must 'honor the Son, even AS we honor the Father....' How do we honor the Father God? Then Jesus said in exactly the same way, we must honor Him.

If that doesn't qualify as saying He (Jesus) ought to be worshipped, I don't know what does. Or are you only looking for an exact quote? You frame exactly how you want Jesus to say it, and if he doesn't, you're not ready to accept completely synonymous statements? That seems silly.

By the exact same reasoning, let me ask: "Where does Muhammad ever say: 'Thou shalt not take up thy fork and eat pork"? If you cannot show me where Muhammad said that, then I aver to you that Moslems should be allowed to eat pork with a fork! Now doesn't that seem foolish? For you know Muhammad forbade pork.....just as Jesus said we ought to worship Him.

Now you're welcome to say you do not believe what the New Testament says about Jesus, but you cannot claim the New Testament never records Jesus as saying He ought to be worshipped.

[Guest Hani_]

after all these comments of mine

i guess i dont need to comment further

true wisdom ...

needs very few words to be shown

what i say is very simple

jesus worshiped his GOd

said i ascend to my GOd and ur GOd

jesus said to his GOd " ur the only true GOd "

its not quantum phsyics ppl

it was nice hearing ur comments

[Guest shiloh357]

after all these comments of mine

i guess i dont need to comment further

true wisdom ...

needs very few words to be shown

what i say is very simple

jesus worshiped his GOd

said i ascend to my GOd and ur GOd

jesus said to his GOd " ur the only true GOd "

its not quantum phsyics ppl

it was nice hearing ur comments

Translation: "I cannot refute what has been said, so I will just ignore it and hope it goes away."

Honestly Hani, you want intelligent dialogue, and when you get it, you act like you are too good to respond to it. You are not here for respectful discussion, you are here to spread Islam.

Why don't you try and refute the information I offered. I showed you the words of Jesus where He calls Himself God. Why do run away from it??

[ayin jade]

dear ayin ....

i understand ur fear of being wrong .....but u have to follow what jesus really teach ... not what ur own will

about jesus forgiving sins ....

How little you know me. I know Jesus is who He claimed to be, and not what you claim. In that I have no fear at all. I do not fear being wrong about the Lord. I know His truth.