10 Ways To Measure Your Spiritual Growth

[apothanein kerdos]

No one said we can do it apart from Christ. I even said that God allows men to hold back their evil and commit good deeds even if they are not in Christ. If He didn't, then none of us would exist.

What I was suggesting to begin with is that the original post makes it seem that the only way we can be closer to God is to pursue spiritual matters. This is close to Gnosticism (though definately NOT Gnosticism). Fact is, to pursue Christ, we have to be holistic in our view.

[Kabowd]

There is still failure here to respond to what is being said. You say gnostisim...I know nothing of it, have read nothing on it. I have been saying this.

Then I strongly encourage you to read the books that a.k. listed a few posts earlier and educate yourself on it. Historically, their teachings have been the enemy of the gospel and continue to this day (only in a more watered-down form). It's important to know about false doctrines so that we are able to spot them when they rear their ugly heads again.

There will be a day when there will be those that say LORD, LORD we have done this in your name, and that in your name. But Jesus will say to them I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. Why will Jesus tell those to depart when these works were done in HIS NAME. This is because they were done in the ABILITY OF MAN. Man did his thing, then took out his "In Jesus Name" stamp place it on it and said it was His. Christ cannot deny Himself, if these works were truly of Him then He would have no choice but to accept them.

Go back and read Matthew 7:21-23 again. The way you are interpreting it suggests that Jesus denied them because of their deeds/works. This is false. In verse 23 we see Him declare the reason He is rejecting them, "I never knew you". The Greek word here for "never" is outdepote which literally means "never at any time". Christ did not have a personal relationship with these people and this is the basis on which He rejects them. Notice also, He doesn't reject their deeds. There are still good things that many people do, whether they know the Lord or not. This of course doesn't earn them salvation, but the deed itself can still be good in and of itself. Oskar Schindler is a good example. Are you familiar with him? He was a German drunkard, womanizer and an adulterer who eventually abandoned his wife. But that does not negate the fact that he single handedly rescued over 1,100 Jews from certain torturous deaths. What he did was good, whether he was a good man or not.

And I never said that God can not use what is natural, there are many natural things GOD USES. But who will get the credit at The judgement of the Saints. Remember those things of wood, hay and stubble will get burned. This is MANS ABILITY. Or do you not know that the saints will be judged too. Our brother Paul speaks of this also.

Scripture reference? Most theologians believe that the proper interpretations of the "burning" that will come in the end is more of a refiner's fire than a total destruction. Much like the flood that God brought when the world was corrupt in Noah's day, it will destroy and purge what is evil....but all that is good (the things God created to be good) will survive and be refined. If our ability (something God created) will burn up, what is the point? You're still making an incorrect connection by stating that our abilities are basically worthless. This isn't true. You also didn't directly respond to much of what I posted.

I do not wish to debate, but to edify and be edified. I praise God He has allowed me to see my inability, my hopelessness. I praise God that I have been allowed to see that I am fully corrupt. In this, the Life of Christ is all the more precious because I desire Christ to FULLY live His Life thru me. I want nothing more to do with works done in my natural ability. I desire Christ to be my ABILITY, for it is His Life by which I now Live. I pray thru the grace of God He allows you to see the same.

Discussion is good, it's how we sharpen one another. I'm not trying to be critical of you or your beliefs for the sake of belittling you. I'm trying to show you your error out of love. We all want our lives to be glorifying to God, of course we do. The point that I am trying to make is that we bring Him glory in many more ways than those things described in the original post, and in far more ways than you are suggesting. Again, you are placing limitations on God which do not exist.

[Marnie]

The good in natural man comes from one source. THE FRUIT OF THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL. And guess what man was judge according to this so called GOOD. Christ was crucified to deliver us from this so called GOOD. In man there is NO GOOD for man was judged in Christ. Once we realize God's veiw of us then we we would be all the more better. For we would allow Christ to fully live out His Life in us.

Thank you for that.