The Chastening of the Lord

[Pilgrim7]

Why this need to endure chastening and such a stern warning against those who don't endure? Why is this a sign of a true son or daughter of God? When was the last time you heard this in a sermon?

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened [us] after their own pleasure; but he for [our] profit, that [we] might be partakers of his holiness.

12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble [you], and thereby many be defiled;

It seems that God knows that many will fail of the grace of God. It looks as though our will and our choices have something to do with our salvation and our ultimate destiny. Why is it that some want to make the road so smooth and remove any rocks and bumps and widen the gate when God has already made the Gate narrow?

God bless,

Dennis

[Christ's Free Servant]

Dennis,

Thank you for sharing that. People choose the wide gate and the wide path because they want God on their own terms, plain and simple. It disturbs me greatly that so many people are buying in to this "no obedience" and "no repentance" necessary for salvation junk. This philosophy is running rampant in our churches today. Basically, "no responsibility" on our part at all - it's a FREE RIDE! That's what people want. They want God like they want their fast food take out. They want God as a matter of convenience for them, short and quick and then move on with their lives. They get their "instant" salvation and their free ticket to heaven, they think, but they can still live however they want to live.

There are so many scriptures that point to this as false teaching and a dangerous road to travel, because one day he is going to say "I never knew you." But, those people don't want to hear the truth. Their ears are closed. They like their lives the way they are. They can believe in God and worship him in church on Sundays but he has never become "Lord" of their lives. And, they are being told he never has to. So many people have lost the fear of God. They have forgotten who God really is. But, he is going to remind them. Then, their ears will be unstopped and their eyes will be opened and God will put a new spirit in their hearts - I believe this with all my heart! This is coming!

[50_Cent's_dog]

Dennis,

Thank you for sharing that. People choose the wide gate and the wide path because they want God on their own terms, plain and simple. It disturbs me greatly that so many people are buying in to this "no obedience" and "no repentance" necessary for salvation junk. This philosophy is running rampant in our churches today. Basically, "no responsibility" on our part at all - it's a FREE RIDE! That's what people want. They want God like they want their fast food take out. They want God as a matter of convenience for them, short and quick and then move on with their lives. They get their "instant" salvation and their free ticket to heaven, they think, but they can still live however they want to live.

There are so many scriptures that point to this as false teaching and a dangerous road to travel, because one day he is going to say "I never knew you." But, those people don't want to hear the truth. Their ears are closed. They like their lives the way they are. They can believe in God and worship him in church on Sundays but he has never become "Lord" of their lives. And, they are being told he never has to. So many people have lost the fear of God. They have forgotten who God really is. But, he is going to remind them. Then, their ears will be unstopped and their eyes will be opened and God will put a new spirit in their hearts - I believe this with all my heart! This is coming!

( John 3:3 ) Jesus declared," I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is Born Again." To be Born Again means that you are born of the Spirit. If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and by faith ask him into your heart to be your Lord and Savior, you are saved by faith. We must not confuse the gift of God as something to be earned. Yes, we must repent of our sins and confess them but that isn't what gets us into heaven. Faith in Jesus gets us into heaven. Not good works.

Are you one of the ones that believe that you can lose salvation? ( 1 John5:13 ) I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. Once you receive the Holy Spirit you are a child of God. Why do you people want to take the joy out of the "father and son' relationship and make it conditional. Yes our relationship with God weakens if we sin and don't repent but God is still the Heavenly Father to those who came to Him by faith. He will not take away our salvation.

It is a miracle in its self when somebody comes to Jesus in faith for salvation. I have tried to lead others to Christ but they just don't hear. It is truly a miracle when a person gets saved. Why are you people trying to make heaven something to be earned? It is a gift bought and paid for by Jesus. Don't take the joy of a relationship with Jesus away by forcing them to do works. Yes, if you have faith works will come, but don't make works neccesary for salvation.

[Iryssa]

No one's forcing anyone to do good works, nor trying to take the joy out of salvation (personally, I consider doing good deeds a joy). But Dennis and Sue are right...faith without deeds is useless. (James 2:20) Those who ARE saved bear fruit. I'm not about to get into a discussion about whether or not you can lose salvation...but I would question whether someone who does not bear fruit was saved in the first place. I think one of the most difficult passages in scripture for evangelicals (I include myself in this group) to face is this one in James 2:14-26:

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him,

[50_Cent's_dog]

Why this need to endure chastening and such a stern warning against those who don't endure? Why is this a sign of a true son or daughter of God? When was the last time you heard this in a sermon?

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened [us] after their own pleasure; but he for [our] profit, that [we] might be partakers of his holiness.

12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble [you], and thereby many be defiled;

It seems that God knows that many will fail of the grace of God. It looks as though our will and our choices have something to do with our salvation and our ultimate destiny. Why is it that some want to make the road so smooth and remove any rocks and bumps and widen the gate when God has already made the Gate narrow?

God bless,

Dennis

Believe me Dennis, I am not trying to make the road more smooth or wide. It is a miracle for anyone to come to faith in Christ and receive salvation. I know this because I did not believe in God for a long time. It is by His grace that I have become His Child and received the Holy Spirit. I have tried to tell my loved ones about Christ and they just don't hear or understand.

Remember the thief on the cross next to Jesus. ( Luke 23:42-43 ) Then he said," Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus answered him," I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." All that man did was have faith to believe that Jesus was the Messiah. He didn't do anything to earn his way into heaven. The other thief didn't believe and as a result probably is in hell.

It is impossible for a man to get to heaven on his own. Only by faith in Christ can any body get to heaven. So it is not works but Christ alone who gets us there. Works come only as the result of faith.

( John 3:3 ) In reply Jesus declared," I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is Born Again." That is the way to heaven. Once you are Born Again you can not lose salvation because your salvation does not depend on works. It is because we are saved by faith in Jesus. Not by faith plus works. Again you can not lose your salvation once you have it. (1 John 5:13 ) I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God SO THAT YOU MAY KNOW that you have eternal life. Don't take the joy out of a relationship with Christ by putting in rules and regulations.

( 1 John 4:1) Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone into the world. I write this to let you know that I want a strong relationship with Jesus and want his children to have that relationship also.

[deadman1204]

2Cor12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James supports this. What we do shows what is in our hearts.

Matt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].

Jesus chose you, you didnt choose him.

Rom8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

This speaks for itself.

Also think on this. Rom3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

Rom3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Rom3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

We all have sinned, which puts us at odds with God. Only Jesus can make us right with God. Only Jesus, Only Jesus.

Does this mean we should sin? Why? To avoid sin is to show love for God. Anything that isnt for God is sin. Rom14:23 ...for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin. We do good works because God's love is in our hearts. Not because we are trying to earn God's love. That is impossible.

*Edit: typos and clarification

Edited February 17, 2006 by deadman1204

[Christ's Free Servant]

Try these verses:

I Co. 11:27-32:

[50_Cent's_dog]

No one's forcing anyone to do good works, nor trying to take the joy out of salvation (personally, I consider doing good deeds a joy). But Dennis and Sue are right...faith without deeds is useless. (James 2:20) Those who ARE saved bear fruit. I'm not about to get into a discussion about whether or not you can lose salvation...but I would question whether someone who does not bear fruit was saved in the first place. I think one of the most difficult passages in scripture for evangelicals (I include myself in this group) to face is this one in James 2:14-26:

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him,

[50_Cent's_dog]

No one's forcing anyone to do good works, nor trying to take the joy out of salvation (personally, I consider doing good deeds a joy). But Dennis and Sue are right...faith without deeds is useless. (James 2:20) Those who ARE saved bear fruit. I'm not about to get into a discussion about whether or not you can lose salvation...but I would question whether someone who does not bear fruit was saved in the first place. I think one of the most difficult passages in scripture for evangelicals (I include myself in this group) to face is this one in James 2:14-26:

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him,

[deadman1204]

Try these verses:

I Co. 11:27-32: