Mel Gibson's movie

[Guest idolsmasher]

Neither do athiests, agnostics, Buddhists, Muslims, . . . .

Maybe true, but we weren't talking about them. I think Muslims would be more likely to go see Mel's movie than any of em.

[Guest daughterofaking]

What really puzzles me is the way some (though not all by any means) Jews seem hostile to Christianity. I hope that doesn't sound anti-Semitic as it isn't intended to be. It's just I'm amazed by the way Jewish groups like the Anti-Defamation League and the Simon Wiesenthal Centre are calling this film anti-Semitic before they've even seen it. I support the SWC and much of its work is excellent but of late I seem to have noticed an anti-Christian slant in their site. For instance they accused Pat Robertson of making an anti-Semitic remark even though he supports the "Prayer for Jerusalem" organisation which supports the right of the Jews to Israel. Can anyone throw some light on this as I can't understand it. Maybe it's because there are some "Christian" sites on the Net (mainly the ones devoted to "conspiracy theories") which are decidedly anti-Semitic and even accuse Israel of being behind the 9/11/01 atrocities! One thing that sickens me about Mel Gibson's film is the way his 84 year old father has been slandered as a "holocaust denier". Has anyone actually HEARD him say the holocaust never happened? If not they ought to stop persecuting an old man.

[Guest Happy]

I noticed jewish people are very offended even at the mention of the word "Jesus".

[Catsmeow]

DOAK: Satan knows how to inflict wounds onto the Body of Christ.

He does it by causing division.... It's fairly easy to fabricate lies and find a "Christian scapegoat" to take the blame....then transfer the blame to all of Christendom.

Idolsmasher: I wonder. They might be. I was watching an interview with Iranian college students, (male and female) and they seem intrigued by Christianity. They want to know more about us and what we believe.

When I was in missions working exclusively with Muslims, I found them to be very curious about Christians, (most of them seemed so...but some were hostile).

I do think many would be attracted to the film for the sake of satisfying their own curiosity.

[Guest shiloh357]

Daughterofaking,

With regard to your question about Jewish hostility to Christianity, please permit me to make the following points:

1. We have nearly 2000 years of "Church" hostility towards Jewish people to answer for. Jews have been killed merilessly by those who clamed to be Christians. Beginning with the first crusade orchestrated by Pope Urban II, Jews have been tortured and killed on charges of "Deicide" (killing God). Granted, those who perpetrated these crimes were not really Christians, but many Jewish people are not theologically equipped to differentiate betweeen true Christians and those who manipulated the religion for their own evil agendas. The Church has not really come to terms with this sordid history, and for the most part has been indifferent to the Jewish people's feelings on these matters. In short, it has been implied by many in the Church that all of this is in the past, and the Jews should just "get over it."

2. The Church was indifferent during the holocaust. This has been interpreted as approval by the Jewish community. While a relative handful of Christians actually managed to help Jews trying to escape Hitler's madness, most just did not care. This is especially true of the Church in the US. Not much was said over here. Sure, the Church could have not stopped the Holocaust, but had we spoke out and opposed Hitler and his madness in the strongest terms, we would possibly have opened lines of communication with the Jewish community and that would given more opportunities for spreading the gospel to the Jews as Christ commanded us.

3. Christians are, for the most part, indifferent today as the nation of Israel fights for its life. While a majority of evangelicals seem to be the most vocal in support of the nation of Israel, the church as a whole is silent. Many actually take the Palestinians' side, inspite of the terror they are unleashing. In some places, Christians are actually coming out and saying that Israel does not have legitimate biblical claims to the Land God gave them. That is a whole bunch of baloney, and is easily refutable with Scipture.

4. Jewish people are hostile against the Christian faith, but not for the reasons that Christians would like to think. The reasons are different today than they were during the ministry of Paul. The world is completely different. The Jews have 2000 years of history to prove that when they are up against the ropes, they will not be able to count on Christians. In fact, they believe that Christians are the one that put them against the ropes in the first place. The Church is doing little to prove them wrong. Christians and Muslims have been the two worst enemies that the Jewish people have had to face. Since the Jews believe that Christians have turned their backs on them, they have come to the conclusion that to become a Christian would mean that they must turn their backs on their brothers, sisters, parents and friends. To become a Christian is to become a traitor in their eyes. So, Jesus is not the problem. Christians in their ignorance and arogance have made it almost impossible for a Jew to get saved. Unfortunately, it is Christians themsevles who are the problem.

[Guest idolsmasher]

So, Jesus is not the problem.

You're wrong about that, it is because they rejected Christ that God rejected them and scattered them throughout the earth and had their temple destroyed just as Christ said would happen. They reject Him to this day and brand Him as an idolater in their Rabbinical teachings. They also reject Christians as idolaters. In Judaism idolatry is something to be despised and rejected. Contrary to what you are teaching, they for the most part have conciously decided they don't accept Christ is the Messiah, after all, the Messiah will not be an idolater. If Jesus was the messiah he would have conquered Rome and so on and so forth.

[Guest idolsmasher]

This one's for you Shiloh.

Jewsweek

Jews, Jesus, and German cars

Why we should finally buy German cars and be happy with Mel Gibson.

by Micha Ghertner August 25, 2003

BEHOLD THE BEAMER: Ghertner wants Jews to start buying Benz and BMW.

Enough already. The Anti-Defamation League (ADL), among other Jewish groups, needs to calm down. Mel Gibson's upcoming movie The Passion is not anti-Semitic, not hostile to the Jewish people as a group, and is faithful to an honest reading of Christian scripture. In this age of real and troubling increases in anti-Semitism all over the world, Jews -- and the ADL in particular -- have better things to worry about than this film.

The controversy surrounding The Passion is complicated by questions of historical accuracy and religious interpretation. Gibson, a member of a small Catholic sect that rejects modern Vatican doctrine, believes that Jews -- not Romans -- were ultimately responsible for killing Jesus.

Since Gibson is not a member of the mainstream Catholic Church, he has no obligation, religious or otherwise, to accept their interpretation of the New Testament. Further, modern historical analyses have been unable to untangle truth from fiction: the historical accounts from that time period were written by biased observers. Barring new evidence, the question of who killed Jesus will remain a matter of controversy for the foreseeable future.

It is interesting to note that no one raised much protest over the historical inaccuracies in Gibson's previous film epic Braveheart. What is at issue here is obviously not historical accuracy, but a fear that the film, as the ADL put it, "will fuel hatred, bigotry, and anti-Semitism."

Perhaps it will. But that is not Gibson's responsibility, just as Columbine is neither the responsibility of Marilyn Manson nor the makers of violent video games. If Gibson believes that the testimonies found in the Gospels are historically accurate, and wishes to make a movie that portrays them as such, he should be free to do so without feeling guilty that some ignorant Christians will act out their rage on innocent Jews.

The problem lies not with Mel Gibson, but with the concept of inheritable guilt. For even if we grant that some Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus, why should that have any bearing on the moral responsibility of Jews living 2000 years later? I certainly don't feel guilty for what my ancestors may or may not have done two millennia ago and I doubt most other people -- Jew or Gentile -- would either.

This idea of inheritable guilt is pernicious in our society, and Jews can play a significant role in counteracting this deplorable concept. One way to start is by purchasing German cars.

It is not discussed often, but Jews are still silently shamed by friends and family into boycotting that coveted Beemer or Benz, even though six decades have passed since the Holocaust. This practice is not only hypocritical, but morally wrong. If Jews are serious about fighting the anti-Semitism of ignorant Christians who hold modern Jews accountable for the alleged sins of their forefathers, then Jews must be willing to refrain from holding modern Germans accountable for the sins of the Nazis.

We must never forget. Nor must we forgive the Nazis for the unthinkable crimes they committed. However, unlike race and ethnicity, guilt is not an inheritable characteristic. To judge the children and grandchildren of Nazis -- and Germans in general -- not for their own actions, but for the actions of their genetic predecessors, is to be guilty of the same logical and moral fallacies for which we rightly condemn racists, sexists, and anti-Semites.

The cruelty of bigotry is that it is inescapable for the victim. No one has control over his or her birth status. It's the ultimate injustice to treat people poorly for something they cannot change, for something they did not do -- in short, simply for their existence as human beings. Jews have a long history of being the targets of bigotry and should be especially sensitive to this. We have a special responsibility to not do to Germans what we do not want done to us by Christians.

I will not be held responsible for crimes I did not commit. I will not feel guilty about them. And I will not deny to others the same respect that I expect them to give to me.

Be a patriotic American Jew. Buy a German car. And go see The Passion.

[Guest shiloh357]

Idolsmasher

You're wrong about that, it is because they rejected Christ that God rejected them and scattered them throughout the earth and had their temple destroyed just as Christ said would happen. They reject Him to this day and brand Him as an idolater in their Rabbinical teachings. They also reject Christians as idolaters. In Judaism idolatry is something to be despised and rejected. Contrary to what you are teaching, they for the most part have conciously decided they don't accept Christ is the Messiah, after all, the Messiah will not be an idolater. If Jesus was the messiah he would have conquered Rome and so on and so forth.

Much (but not all)of the Rabbinc writings against Christ orginated app. 1100 A.D. under the teachings of Rashi, one of their foremost Rabbis. Rashi began deleting portions of the Talmud that spoke of Messianic Prophecies especally commentary on Isaiah 53. The reason for this was that Jews were converting to Christianity and then becoming themelves, persecutors of the Jews. Gentiles persecuting Jews was bad enough, but to have ones own friends and family turn on them was too much. Today, the rejection of Jesus as the Messiah has become alsmost a knee-jerk reaction. Many of the lame arguments that Jews make against Jesus as Messiah today are the products of years and years of Rabbis grasping at every straw they can to make a case against Jesus. I have talked to many Jews and I get pretty much the same reaction. They continuously tell me that to become a Christian is essentially giving approval to the actions of another "Christian," namely Adolf Hitler. The rejection of Jesus today is more an act of self preservation or preservation of the Jewish race. Christians con themselves into thinking that the Jewish rejection of Jesus is purely a theological one. Perhaps to a small degree it is. It is easier for Christians to think like that, than to examine themselves and see if there is anything the church has done to foment this.

In Jesus day, the Jewish leaders rejected Jesus and persecuted the Apostles for more political reasons. Many of the Saducees and some of the Pharisees were puppets of the Roman empire and enjoyed a lot of perks as a result. Jesus and His message were considered a threat to their position. That is why they had Him killed.

People can make up a theology to justify anything they want. The Jewish people have had 2000 years to create a theology to protect themselves and each other from the "threat" of Christianity. Christians just need to be more honest and admit the church's contribution to the problem.

[Guest Goldman01]

People can make up a theology to justify anything they want. The Jewish people have had 2000 years to create a theology to protect themselves and each other from the "threat" of Christianity. Christians just need to be more honest and admit the church's contribution to the problem.

What problem Shiloh? I need clarification!

[Guest idolsmasher]

They continuously tell me that to become a Christian is essentially giving approval to the actions of another "Christian," namely Adolf Hitler.

You're right, that's a lame excuse.