Purgatory.

[Irish_Graham]

I havent fully read the Old Testament yet (have got as far as Job) but have read the entire New Testament and didnt find any mention of it directly.

Does anyone know the full history of it?

Ive read it is generally only believed to be a Roman Catholic belief, I go to a Presbyterian Church and have never heard it mentioned from the pulpit.

Anyone?

[ayin jade]

Purgatory is not found in scripture.

[Leonard]

Purgatory is a doctrine of the Roman church. To my thinking it is based in a too-narrow view of the atonement of Christ. Christ paid the penalty for sins of which we repent and receive forgiveness, but in Roman theology if you commit a sin and then die before receiving absolution, that sin still has to be 'purged' (hence 'purg'atory) from you. Today, few speculate on what purgatory is like, but in the past many viewed it as being at least as horrible as hell.

The fact is NOTHING but the shed blood of Christ can 'purge' sin......

I beg your indulgence (no pun intended) if this explanation is not as detailed or nuanced as it should be; I have taken a new sort of prescription for shoulder pain, and it has left me very spacey mentally......... I won't EVER take this thing again. By the way, it did NOTHING for the pain; aspirin works far better!

Edited February 23, 2006 by Leonard

[Tari]

Okay bear with me here, my Bible is not with me here at the shop. Basically like in 1Cor 3:15 it speaks about What hapens if a righteous mans work fails the test? He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. Nothing unclean shall enter heaven in other words. Catholics definitely believe in literal hell as written in the word. Purgatory has nothing to do with a person already damned. Purgatory is a process of purification some will go through, to cleanse them through fire, before entering into the heavenly kingdom. There are other verses in the Bible like God testing us through fire like gold and silver to be molded properly.

[ayin jade]

It is appointed to man to die but once and then judgment.

The bible doesnt say it is appointed to man to die but once, then maybe judgment after a time in purgatory. So called scriptural backing for purgatory is very weak. Purgatory is not supported in the bible.

[CarolineS]

Purgatory is a belief that individuals not good enough to be worthy of heaven but not evil enough to deserve hell, suffer in an intermediary state until their sins are purged.

This concept is based on the false understanding of the immortality of the soul (see many threads on this topic for further discussion) as well as how individuals are saved. It is not scriptural.

It also teaches a false belief that there is a second chance to be saved after death. There is not a second chance. "Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." (2Cor. 6:2)

In Christ,

CarolineS

[Tari]

Nothing unclean shall enter heaven Rev. 21:27

Purification is necessary because it is in scripture that nothing unclean will enter into the presence of God in Heaven. We may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us.

Luke 12:15 I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper

Anyone who has not been completely freed of sin and its effects is, to some extent, "unclean". Through repentence a person may have gained the grace needed to be worthy of heaven, which is to say, he is forgiven and his soul is spiritually alive. But that's not sufficient for gaining entrance into heaven. A person needs to be cleansed completely.

Ity is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how redemption is applied to us. Scripture tells us that it is applied to us over the coarse of time through the process of sanctification, through which the christian is made holy. Sanctification involves suffering Romans 5:3-5. Called purgatory by Catholics, its the final stage of sanctification that some of us need to undergo before we enter heaven.

Purgatory is the final phase of Christ's applying to us the purifying redemption that He accomplished for us by His death on the cross. Our suffering does not take away from Jesus dying on the cross for us. Rather the cross produces our sanctification, which results in our suffering. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness Heb 12:11.

Purgatory makes sense because there is a requirement that a soul not just be declared to be clean, but actually be clean, before a man may enter into eteernal life. If a guilty soul is merely covered, and if its sinful state still exists but is officially ignored, then it is still a guilty soul. It is still unclean. A soul willl need to be purged of its remaining imperfections. Nothing unclean shall enter heaven. Purging is taught in these verses 2Thess 2:13, and Hebrews 12:14

[Smalcald]

I agree nothing unclean will enter heaven.

Praise God that Christ did all of the work for us, we need nothing else to become totally clean. Any other idea takes away from the work Christ did on the cross, it says that what Christ did was not enough, that we are not really forgiven.

[KatieK]

I can't believe some people are defending Purgatory. It is most definitely not in the scriptures. One of the hundreds of examples of why there can be no such place is Lk 23:39-43

39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[f]"

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

If the CRIMINAL(this dude was most definitely not righteous and according to pro-purgatory would need his sins purged from him) was to go to heaven with Jesus that day! If Jesus can take a man worthy of being crucified with him to heaven that very day then why would it be any different for us? why would we not go straight to heaven as well? There is no middle ground. You go to Heaven or Hell when you die. THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST IS ENOUGH TO PURIFY US OF ALL SIN! NOTHING ELSE IS NEEDED TO MAKE US HOLY ENOUGH TO STAND IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD IN HEAVEN. IF CHRIST'S SACRIFICE ON OUR BEHALF IS NOT ENOUGH THEN WHAT'S THE POINT? OUR FAITH IS ALL FOR NOTHING IF IT'S STILL OUR OWN WORKS THAT SAVE US.

Hebrews 9:25-28 25Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Also from my world history course which is fairly accurate on anything Christian negative has given me a lot of background on the corruption of the Catholic Church around the time of the Renaissance. From this secular course, Purgatory is a made up place to frighten illiterate and uneducated catholics who can not read the scriptures for themselves into paying the church for their ticket out of this made up place of torment. indulgences which bought you time out of purgatory where sold in huge numbers to fund the wars raged by the papal states and the building of st. peters Basilica.

[Scarletprayers]

I agree nothing unclean will enter heaven.

Praise God that Christ did all of the work for us, we need nothing else to become totally clean. Any other idea takes away from the work Christ did on the cross, it says that what Christ did was not enough, that we are not really forgiven.

Amen Smalcald!