Saved by faith.

[Guest shiloh357]

OK Elijah I am going to try this again, since you didn't catch where I was going in my last response. I will be a bit more direct. Are you teaching that true Christians should not sin ever again, even once? Are you teaching that the Scriptures demand absolute sinless perfection from Christians???

Sorry about that. I would say yes, a true Christian should never sin again. Should being the operative word there. It need not be the case, and you'll find life and peace apart from sin. As far as scripture demanding absolute sinlessness, no. I am trying to emphasize that you never have to sin again, but it is still possible. And if it were to occur don't loss faith, we have an advocate. Christ came to forgive us our sins, now it is our reasonable service to live our lives holy in a way that is acceptable to Him.

So I am not teaching a Christian must be absolutely sinless after they are saved, but just that it is possible and should at all times be a hope of a Christian. Keeping in mind that that hope may only be accomplished by the grace of God through faith in His work. Now that we are in Christ, we live in three things, faith, hope, and love. Love will forgive as well as keep you from sin. Faith will sancify you. Hope will make you keep that faith and love until the end.

Ok, thank you. I agree with you. I just had to make sure.

[ElijahSK]

cardcaptor,

Well, based on what you told 1Tim 3:16, I really don't think we have an argument. I would like to point out that everything Paul points out as flesh in that Galatians context is very typical on the unbelievers. And the one that follow the Spirit, reap fruit from the Spirit. And these fruits listed in this context are very Christ-like.

Again not as a point of contention, but I would add these four verses to the ones you have already posted.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

There is also one like I'd like to clarify in your post.

To many people think that Christ did everything on the cross for us and we don't have to do anything but believe in him. There is so much more than that. Especially when we are told things like this:

Belief is all that is required. If your faith is alive and strong, you will have works that follow. These works aren't another thing required, but they are fruit of the Spirit. I wouldn't consider this to be a major point of contention either, I believe it was just misopportune phrasing. We are saved by faith alone, apart from works. In a like manner we receive our santification. But if your faith has no works, it's dead. Or how I would say it, if you say you believe something but don't act in accordance with what you believe, you don't really believe it. If I tell you I don't believe apples are edible, you should see me walking around eating apples. If I am, it is evident that I don't really believe that.

[chrismarc]

ElijahSK

But now I understand, that if we come to Christ we are a new creature. Old things have past away behold all thing have become new. So if I want to go and sin, it's possible, but if I do it's the new man sinning. Believe God's word. Go and sin no more.

What is sin? How does it affect our salvation?

[chrismarc]

cardcaptor,

>>What is sin? How does it affect our salvation?<<

When I chose not obey any of the commandments set down by Christ

and taught by his Apostles I "sin".... If I stay in this state then I have not God. This goes for both sinners and Christians.

Does this apply to those who have been "saved"?

[chrismarc]

cardcaptor,

Even though I have been saved I can still make choices. If I choose to go back into the world of sin that I was saved from then I will lose my salvation. Nobody can take me out of the hands of God but myself.

Agreed. What say you OSAS folks?

Imagine this, say there is somebody in the ocean drowning and a ship comes by and pulls them out of the water. They have been saved from drowning and dying in the sea, but what happens if the person who was saved decides to jump back into the water?

They either die or reach out for help (confession) again -

the boat (God) is always there to save them.

Sin is sin and God has never allowed it whether from a sinner or a Christian.

What about mortal sin?

" All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. " (1 Jn 5:17)

People are either unlearned, blind, or just plain rejecting the fact that Christians can lose thier salvation when they choose to hold onto sins and/or leave Christianity to go back into the world that they once escaped from.

Personally, i believe it is the work of the great liar and deceiver,

to lull people into a false sense of eternal security - he then

doesn't have to bother with them. Scary, because there are so

many who believe all they have to do is say a sinner's prayer

and that's it.

There are such things as diobedient Christians that don't follow the bible whole heartedly. That is why Christ said this,

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

This is why there are tens of thousands of different Christian

assemblies each claiming to have the truth as revealed by the

Scriptures:

" For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own

lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;And they shall turn

away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. " (2 Tim 4:3-4)

Many people claim they are Christians, but don't do the will of God. Obedience to ALL of the bible is what will enter me into heaven. If I don't obey ALL of the will of God I will not enter in whether I am a sinner or a Christian.

Exactly, just as man was condemned through disobedience,

he is redeemed by obedience.

[Openly Curious]

whow I should have read this thread before I started the new thread on Our freewills in which I'm trying to learn about am listening to you all and learning so keep talking please

Openly Curious

[st. Worm]

"As far as scripture demanding absolute sinlessness, no. I am trying to emphasize that you never have to sin again, but it is still possible."

Actually it is not possible. The old Adam (sin nature) remains with us until he is put to death for good when we leave this world. In terms of Christian maturity, the issue is not how little we sin but the realization of what a sinner we still are. Paul seems to be very clear about that in Romans 7. Recall the publican proclaiming thanks that he is not as bad all of those sinners while the tax collector brings nothing to God but his confession of sin. "God have mercy upon me, a sinner". THAT, is where we all need to be.

SW

[Guest drbelitz]

justification and salvation are one thing.

to be justified in the sight of God and by God is to be saved.

sanctification is an aspect of your justification. Maybe that was the word you were thinking of.

The Church has taught infallibly on these matters. Inerrant.

go read the catechism and see.