Suicide

[nebula]

Nebula,

I do not treat this frivolously at all as you say. But I hold out the message of hope to them that they can recieve help in Christ. It is a real shame that you cannot see that. But no matter what people are struggling with I know Christ and He alone is the answer and that is who I'll keep pointing them to.

I'm not against pointing to Christ. It's because of Him that I found the strength to stay alive, after all.

I'm trying to tell you your angle is all wrong. To get the right angle, you need to "walk a mile in their shoes" so to speak, and it is this I'm trying to show you and others.

The only way to minister to someone is so lost as to want to end their lives is to jump in the mud with them so that you can wrap their arms around them.

I know because I recall having told a Chrisitan mentor about my struggle with suicide, and her reaction was to give advice similar to what you've said. It just made me angry, and I felt like I ought to slit my throat just to make it clear to you how I really feel!

Someone lost in suicidal desires needs to know that they are understood. What I would have given for someone to just cry with me for a change. Do you have any idea how that would have ministered to my pain?

And you still haven't shown the Scripture that states unconfessed sin will send you to Hell.

From the way I look at it my counsel would cause one to think before going through with killing themselves.

No, your counsel would drive the person into deeper despair.

The desire to end one's life has nothing to do with "thinking" and all about "feeling." You want to stop someone from committing suicide? Then you need to reach into those feelings.

And even if my beliefs are wrong in your view and opionion isn't just good logical sense to encorage someone not to commit suicide apart from doctrines.

In your view of looking at things it's almost like your saying go ahead and jump there is nothing you have to loose it's all secure. Well what if it is all secure as you say it is how does it save the persons life here on earth that is in distress.

You want to stop someone from jumping?

You don't say, "If you jump you'll go to Hell."

The person would respond with something like, "I'm already in Hell."

Arguing the point will make the person more angry and more bitter - even towards God.

Now, if you were to say, "Do you love God?" (since we're talking about Heaven or Hell with regards to believers, we're talking about a Christian struggling with suicide - as Heaven vs. Hell with a non-believer is arguing a point they probably don't belive in) - if you say, "Do you love God?" you have now gotten the person to redirect their thoughts off of themselves and on to God.

That's what pulled me out - loving God more than I hated myself. I'm working on the hating myself part - but only because I believe in my heart that this is what God wants me to do, not because I have any desire to feel better about myself.

Arguing doctrine is the last thing a person about to "jump" needs.

Love is what they need.

[Openly Curious]

Openly curious, There have been so many posts on this thread since I started to reply that I had to scroll back to catch up,so first a quatation from you.

The thread started out with the question, would those who committed suicide go to hell even if they were believers. Now the subject from the start is dealing with non-believers who commit suicide as well as believers who commit suicide and regarding christians who commits suicide will they go to hell.

The only thing I have to use for the answers concerning this issue is the bible.

[/quote

I'm sorry I was only referring to believers, because if unbelievers die in their disbelief they will be condemned anyway. So what I was asking was, what has unconfessed sin have to do with suicide? If you (anyone)have been convicted by the H/S to the point of repenting of your sins and asked Christ into your life and received His forgiveness of your sins, then all the sin in your life is forgiven as promised, for all have been confessed, you don't pick and choose.

Of the people I mentioned who took their lives, they gave no indication that they were suicidal. and I'm sure that in the state of mind they were in, praying would be the last thing they would think of.

Now in my own case when I was contemplating ending my life, praying never occured to me because I was not yet saved, but Jesus made himself known to me by a miracle, (one day I might give my testimony) and in less than an hour He changed my life completely around.

I hope I've mad myself a little clearer this time.

in Him,

eric.

Hello eric,

You asked what has unconfessed sin have to do with suicide? And I am addressing the believers in my reply to you.

James 4:17--"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Do Christians in the church actually think suicide is a "right" thing to do to one's self. If a believer does then my gospel that I share will not reach that person for I cannot help the believer in this situation. If the believers in the church hold to that view that suicide is right I hold the church responsible for that soul in this realm for not doing their job and warning believers that it is wrong.

If the believer knows it is "wrong" and chooses that path to escape their circumstances the bible is clear that suicide is a "sin"

as it states "to him that knoweth to "do good", and "doeth it not", "to him" it is "sin"

Again I will ask the question to all believers. Is suicide a "Right" thing to do?

No it is not if we are honest within our hearts in answering that question suicide is "Wrong" and should so be addressed by the church. Suicide robs us of so much our precious family members, our youth, our worth, even our own lives among so many other things to innumerous to even list.

The church has to teach the believers from the pulpit to the pews to confess their faults to one another (Galatians 6:1-2) so they can be restored. Why would the Christian community give no hope of restoration to those within the body of Christ that have been overtaken by despair and all of the other deep and dark emotions that are associated with this type of tempatation (suicide) that Satan has brought to them in order to destroy them with. As John 10:10 states the devil comes into our lives but for 1 of 3 reasons and those three reasons will be to steal something from you, to destroy your life, and to kill you if he can. That is a fact about our adversary the devil. I wonder is believers are ignorant and many are being destroyed because of it. But God will not excuse our ignorance.

So if suicide is wrong for a believer to do then to him it becomes sin if they go through with it. And if the believer is sucessful it is unconfessed sin as they no longer have the opportunity to confess the sin of suicide.

God has given believers a prescribed path to follow in his word when they are in trouble what to do. But I wonder if the believers are ignorant of the help that is so readily available to them because they don't read the word or they don't get taught how to go to God and other believers when these things come into their lives. Or perhaps those in these type of situations are afraid of what the Christian community will say and do to them if they confessed such a thing to them. Fear of rejection from the family of God and from God himself. I don't know but I do know Jesus is the way out of what ever delimma Satan brings into your life to destroy you with.

So if it is "Wrong" it is a "Sin" to do it. And if it is a "Sin" then we know that unconfessed sin is what condemns as fellowship with God is broken.

Maybe I'll see fit to share my testimony as well but the prompting of the Holy Spirit has lead me in that way yet.

God Bless

Openly Curious

[Openly Curious]

Nebula,

I do not treat this frivolously at all as you say. But I hold out the message of hope to them that they can recieve help in Christ. It is a real shame that you cannot see that. But no matter what people are struggling with I know Christ and He alone is the answer and that is who I'll keep pointing them to.

I'm not against pointing to Christ. It's because of Him that I found the strength to stay alive, after all.

I'm trying to tell you your angle is all wrong. To get the right angle, you need to "walk a mile in their shoes" so to speak, and it is this I'm trying to show you and others.

The only way to minister to someone is so lost as to want to end their lives is to jump in the mud with them so that you can wrap their arms around them.

I know because I recall having told a Chrisitan mentor about my struggle with suicide, and her reaction was to give advice similar to what you've said. It just made me angry, and I felt like I ought to slit my throat just to make it clear to you how I really feel!

Someone lost in suicidal desires needs to know that they are understood. What I would have given for someone to just cry with me for a change. Do you have any idea how that would have ministered to my pain?

And you still haven't shown the Scripture that states unconfessed sin will send you to Hell.

From the way I look at it my counsel would cause one to think before going through with killing themselves.

No, your counsel would drive the person into deeper despair.

The desire to end one's life has nothing to do with "thinking" and all about "feeling." You want to stop someone from committing suicide? Then you need to reach into those feelings.

And even if my beliefs are wrong in your view and opionion isn't just good logical sense to encorage someone not to commit suicide apart from doctrines.

In your view of looking at things it's almost like your saying go ahead and jump there is nothing you have to loose it's all secure. Well what if it is all secure as you say it is how does it save the persons life here on earth that is in distress.

You want to stop someone from jumping?

You don't say, "If you jump you'll go to Hell."

The person would respond with something like, "I'm already in Hell."

Arguing the point will make the person more angry and more bitter - even towards God.

Now, if you were to say, "Do you love God?" (since we're talking about Heaven or Hell with regards to believers, we're talking about a Christian struggling with suicide - as Heaven vs. Hell with a non-believer is arguing a point they probably don't belive in) - if you say, "Do you love God?" you have now gotten the person to redirect their thoughts off of themselves and on to God.

That's what pulled me out - loving God more than I hated myself. I'm working on the hating myself part - but only because I believe in my heart that this is what God wants me to do, not because I have any desire to feel better about myself.

Arguing doctrine is the last thing a person about to "jump" needs.

Love is what they need.

Hello Nebula,

I have walk a mile. But I think staying out of the mud is better logic that jumping in with them.

You said you would have given anything if someone would have just cried with you. It is very sad that you were blind to the Father who wanted to take you under His wings but you didn't go to him. Why is ask is it because you didn't know to do it in the church. Did you not hear in the church that Jesus took our infirmities on him to the cross, that the Spirit helpeth our infirmities, that your Father in heaven sent his son Jesus to this world for the purpose of binding up the broken hearted.(Matt 8:17: Romans 8:26: Isaiah 61:1)

Did you not hear and know that Jesus came to bind up or mend what was or had wounded your heart and mind. Did you not know of this great love from the church you were apart of that the Father had for you in your situation. Did you not know in your church that God saw every tear that ever filled your eyelids during this time of struggles in your life and that His ears were open unto the Cries of the Righteous, ( His children, the believers, the people of God) did you not know this in the church you attended. The Heavenly Father "was there" all the time eagerly awaiting for just a whimper or just one "cry" of faith from you out to Him and He would have come to your aid.

But it is sad that in your relationship at that time in the Lord was like that and you did not know to come to the Father of heaven as his child and tell him your problems. It is sad that the church did not help you. In that I can deeply sympathize with you and also share the hope that is in the gospel.

God Bless

Openly Curious

[nebula]

Hello Nebula,

I have walk a mile. But I think staying out of the mud is better logic that jumping in with them.

You said you would have given anything if someone would have just cried with you. It is very sad that you were blind to the Father who wanted to take you under His wings but you didn't go to him.

Didn't you hear me say that it was beacause of Jesus that I found the strength to stay alive?

"Didn't run to the Father"....puh-lease!

How much more frustrating can you get to me?

All right . . . calm down . . . let me explain to you my story.

I fell into depression at a young age - my desires for suicide began in my pre-teen years. I had been a committed Christian since my early elementary school years. I prayed every night, I loved singing praise and worship song, I began reading my Bible every day around fifth grade. But my life was very, very painful. I cried many tears alone pouring my heart out to the Lord as best as I knew how each time. Pouting? Maybe, but it was the best I could do at the time.

When the desires to end my life began permeating my soul, do you think I didn't likewise cry to the Lord with this? Wrong - I did. In fact, He was the only One I was able to tell about my struggle.

You know what He did? Did He tell me I'd go to Hell if I ended my life? No.

He put a picture a my miind - the way I'd see a daydream. What I saw was me having ended my life and approaching the gates of Heaven - and there's Jesus standing there - crying - and asking me, "Why did you have to do that?"

That image just broke my heart - the thought that I could do something that would hurt Jesus - made me not want to do it.

Time and again, this image would pierce my soul when the desires came to the surface again and again. And because of my love for the Lord, I would find the strength to say, "No" to the desires to end my life.

And this is the only reason I am alive today!

Breaking the curse of depression, though . . . that's been taking a lot of spiritual warfare . . . but that is another story.

[message]

DON'T JUDGE TOO HARD.

************************

Pray don't find fault with the man who limps

Or stumbles along the road,

Unless you have worn the shoes he wears

Or struggled beneath his load...

There may be tacks in his shoes that hurt,

Though hidden away from view,

Or the burden he bears, placed on your back,

Might cause you to stumble, too.

**************************

Don't sneer at the man who is down today,

Unless you have felt the blow

That caused his fall, or felt the shame that only the fallen know.

You may be strong, but still the blows

That were his, if dealt to you

In the self same way at the self same time,

Might cause you to stagger too.

***************************

Don't be too harsh with the man who sins,

Or pelt him with words or stones,

Unless you are sure, yea, doubly sure,

That you have not sin's of your own.

For you know, perhaps, if the tempter's voice

Should whisper as soft to you

As it did to him when he went astray

'Twould cause you to falter, too..

By Franc Knighton.

****************************

I Love You All At Worthy Boards, Truly..

May God Bless Each And Every One of You.

May The Good Shepherd, Be With You All..

And Guide You Along The Narrow Way, Always..

May You Feel His Peace,

And Live In His Love...

Holy Greeting's From message X+

*****************************

[Openly Curious]

Hello Nebula,

I have walk a mile. But I think staying out of the mud is better logic that jumping in with them.

You said you would have given anything if someone would have just cried with you. It is very sad that you were blind to the Father who wanted to take you under His wings but you didn't go to him.

Didn't you hear me say that it was beacause of Jesus that I found the strength to stay alive?

"Didn't run to the Father"....puh-lease!

How much more frustrating can you get to me?

All right . . . calm down . . . let me explain to you my story.

I fell into depression at a young age - my desires for suicide began in my pre-teen years. I had been a committed Christian since my early elementary school years. I prayed every night, I loved singing praise and worship song, I began reading my Bible every day around fifth grade. But my life was very, very painful. I cried many tears alone pouring my heart out to the Lord as best as I knew how each time. Pouting? Maybe, but it was the best I could do at the time.

When the desires to end my life began permeating my soul, do you think I didn't likewise cry to the Lord with this? Wrong - I did. In fact, He was the only One I was able to tell about my struggle.

You know what He did? Did He tell me I'd go to Hell if I ended my life? No.

He put a picture a my miind - the way I'd see a daydream. What I saw was me having ended my life and approaching the gates of Heaven - and there's Jesus standing there - crying - and asking me, "Why did you have to do that?"

That image just broke my heart - the thought that I could do something that would hurt Jesus - made me not want to do it.

Time and again, this image would pierce my soul when the desires came to the surface again and again. And because of my love for the Lord, I would find the strength to say, "No" to the desires to end my life.

And this is the only reason I am alive today!

Breaking the curse of depression, though . . . that's been taking a lot of spiritual warfare . . . but that is another story.

Hello Nebula,

You finally got my point. You couldn't find your help except in God but "until" you ran to him you only "wished" you had someone to cry with you or identify with your pain and agony of heart. This is my message "Run to Him", "Cry To Him," and do it "Faithfully" over and over again you don't have to wait to your circumstances in life becomes so bad that you get overtaken or those dark feelings get so over powerful they overtake you.

And my friend that is exactly the same message you are sharing with me in this same post. You found that Strength to stay alive in "Jesus" That is what I've been saying all along. Jesus is the answer and had it not been for Him you would be dead. But you kept going to him and going to him until you got your deliverance. And even though I was being absurb you got my point. But you only learned this great truth from personal experience by practicing your faith and as a result of using your faith and putting it in God both you and I from experience can offer that same hope, help and comfort that we received from the Lord to help others who are facing similar circumstances in life.

So stop beating your head against the wall my friend there is no need I do get it and you get it also. I wish others would get it. Then we'd all have it. My experience of deliverance was similar to yours and it is for you I'll share without going into details I was on my way out of this world and I heard someone in the room just briefly say something about someone's beard. And when I heard the word "beard" I immediately thought they were referring to plucking the beard of Jesus. In my "mind" I became fighting mad and said to whoever it was that said the word beard I don't even know who it was to this day but I said with my voice -- if you do "I'll hit you. And I've been free from that time as I survived it as the recovery process began. HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR JESUS AND THE OLD RUGGED CROSS I'D BE DEAD the same as you. Don't get it all mixed up my friend. We have the same message of hope to offer this world. And I've been fighting for Jesus ever since.

God Bless

Openly Curious

[nebula]

Hello Nebula,

You finally got my point.

Huh?

You couldn't find your help except in God but "until" you ran to him you only "wished" you had someone to cry with you or identify with your pain and agony of heart.

No - I always ran to God from the get-go. But I still wanted so bad for someone to help me.

For goodness' sake - I lived with this desire for suiced on-and-off for over 20 years!

It wasn't until I was 29/30 years old that I discovered I had a chronic depression/major depressive episode problem that I was actually able to find help from another human being.

The Lord made us to walk with each other, not be isolated in our pain. God first, yes - but we need the touch of human hands as well.

This is my message "Run to Him", "Cry To Him," and do it "Faithfully" over and over again you don't have to wait to your circumstances in life becomes so bad that you get overtaken or those dark feelings get so over powerful they overtake you.

That's the problem - these problems came even while I was leaning on the Lord.

Walking with the Lord is not an automatic immunity from weaknesses and illnesses - physical or emotional or mental.

And even though I was being absurb you got my point.

NO - because I think you still do not understand what it is like to live in this darkness. You make it sound like - trust in Jesus and all will be happy, happy, happy.

Blech!

So not true.

[angels4u]

Oh dear..... what are we implying that sin can keep us out of heaven?

For by grace are we saved not by anything we did therefore if a person is a Christian he/she will be forgiven for this sin too, but I hope its not on anybodies mind here? God placed us on this earth to glorify Him, but yes if a Christian commit this sin I believe he/or she will be forgiven like any other sin.

What is GRACE if we can save ourself?

[nebula]

Neb I am only addressing what is in red. First I would like to ask is Christ your Life?

For the millionth time - YES!

If yes then we really must understand that if He is our Life then we really should be Full of Joy.

Look - take a couse in psychological disorders and then get back to me.

Oh, and while you're at it, get involved with someone who deals with casting out demons and find out how demons can affect even believers.

And maybe, just maybe, you might get the clue that the Lord allows psychological trauma on believers the same way He allows physical injuries and diseases to work in a person's life.

Gracious, if you told me that while I was stuck in a major depressive episode, I would have left weighed down with an even heavier load of guilt and despair.

[nebula]

P.S.

OpenlyCurious was correct when he said:

But you only learned this great truth from personal experience by practicing your faith and as a result of using your faith and putting it in God both you and I from experience can offer that same hope, help and comfort that we received from the Lord to help others who are facing similar circumstances in life.

What he doesn't know was that I already figured this out a long, long time ago.