what does it really mean???

[peaches]

to be saved that is. i have been wondering this for a couple of days now after the bible study on monday that canal did on once saved always saved. now i am asking u people what salvation really is. don't give me what u will or will not get if u are not saved or what will happen to u or whatever. i am asking for a scripture backed definition of what salvation is. i don't think something like John3:16v will help answer my question either

[godrulz]

See Doctrinal Questions: The End result of eternal security (recent posts). We have just talked about what the Gospel/Salvation is.

Salvation is eternal life through a right relationship with God through the death/resurrection of Christ. It is entered into by repentance and faith. It involves loving, serving, obeying Jesus for the rest of your life.

It has the concept of 'wholeness' and healing.

Salvation is not primarily about 'once saved, always saved' or possibly losing your salvation. This is an important aspect to discuss, but is not the God-centered heart of the issue.

To develop a doctrine of soteriology (salvation) would encompass verses from Genesis to Revelation and would touch on issues like man's nature (anthropology), the nature of sin, atonement, redemption, propitiation, justification, sanctification, reconciliation, predestination, election, perseverance, glorification,repentance, faith, etc. We would also find many human views and perspectives on the above issues.

In other words, we would need lots of time and many books to do justice to the topic. Certainly, we can keep it simpler and have an adequate practical, biblical understanding.

[tsth]

Again I would like to compel you to re-think the meaning of grace.

It is here: See Doctrinal Questions: The End result of eternal security (recent posts).

It shines a whole new light on the Christian walk, if you will consider it. Then ask the question again, and consider whether or not you believe in the Power of the Lord, the Power of Grace.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[godrulz]

Grace is powerful and awesome. It is the GROUNDS (reason for) for salvation. God wants to freely forgive sinners (not appeasement/retributive justice), but must do so wisely to uphold His moral government (hence the need for an atonement; public justice).

Grace is not at the expense of our responsibility in salvation ('cheap grace'). Grace cost the death of the Son of God. The conditions of salvation (not without which) are repentance, faith, and continuance (clear in Scripture).

Reconciliation involves two parties. We must emphasize God's GRACE and man's choices/responsibilities. It is both/and, not either/or. Salavation is not all of God nor all of man.

[tsth]

If we have the proper perception of grace, then it gives the proper perception of salvation.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

If I may, I'd like to revisit a couple of old posts.

the first one:

How about denying God's grace, and that false teaching?  Do we fully understand what that means, implies?

Do we understand what God's grace and power is?  Do we understand what Christ purchased for us?  Do we understand that denying God's grace, is to speak as though we are not able to endure temptations.  We are bought with victory through the Blood of Jesus Christ.  Do we understand what that means? 

Turn from ungodliness~

Ac 14:15 -

and saying, "Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them,

Ac 26:18 - Show Context

to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.'

Ro 11:26 - Show Context

And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

False Teachers

Jude 1:4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

(this means denying the Power of Our Lord Jesus' death on the cross)

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth,will be blasphemed.

2 Timothy 3:5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

Tit 2:12 -

teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

1 John 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

[tsth]

The second:

Dear RCruise,

In a nutshell, I will just say that the topic of grace needs much discussion and understanding.  We as a church have denied the power of the blood of Jesus Christ and what He wrought for us. 

We do not afford believers the truth anymore, about the power of grace to overcome sin (sinful lifestyles) etc.  The church does not deliver the Truth about God's Power to overcome temptation and sin.  We have denied it, so that we may remain sitting in the place of defilement, and we do not recognize the Truth in the Scriptures about sin and the newness we have in Christ.  We have afforded many the ability to "sit in sin" like a big comfy chair, under the false teaching about grace. (That because of grace, we are free...but free how?  To continue in sin?  Or free to walk according to the Spirit and sin no more?)  "We are afraid to even speak it aren't we?"  Grace is not something we are to desire, it is something we already have, yet deny.  The Power we already have in Christ Jesus.  We must come out, and live righteously and pure.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Eph. 4:17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the F10 Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

2 Peter 1:3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,* who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us

8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

1 Peter 1:15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,

1Pe 1:16

because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy."

I have gone on longer than I intended, but please, take a look at the thread on "Grace, what is it?" in Apologetics.

In His Love,

Suzanne

And Last:

I am speaking of a Church that has been lulled to sleep.  We've been told pleasant things for so long, that we will no longer hear anything else.  When the reality is, we are not so "lovely".  We have become spoiled "rotten" (figs, if you will) children, and the reason is, our "shepherds" have not taught us any better.  We have decided we no longer want to "hear" Truth, and the sad part is that pastors who are entrenched in filthy lucre, cannot and will not preach what really needs to be taught to the congregation, about sin.  Pastors will not address homosexuality, will not address premarital sex and living together outside of the covenant of marriage, adultery, drug use, porn, abortion, etc....These are the issues of the day, and the shepherds are not delivering the sheep from bondage, by giving them the Truth.  They are in fear of losing their livelihood, if they do.  Therefore they themselves are in bondage as well. 

They will preach about the unmerited favor of God's Grace, but....they will not preach about the Victory over sin that is also possible, and neccesary for us as Christians, that was purchased by Jesus Christ's Grace on the Cross.

If you have ever heard of the Great Awakening in history, it is time again!  It is time for the hearts of fathers to be turned back to the children.  (I've often wondered what this means, I now think it is relevent to how Paul saw himself to his "flock". 

1 Cor. 4:14  I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you. 15 For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you, imitate me.

He referred to them as little children, he even discoursed on this to Timothy in terms of his figure as a father in teachings)  It is time for the leaders to care enough about their flocks to speak to them truthfully, as if they were thier own children!  The churches are crumbling in sin, and the shepherds are silent?  Why?  Money.

Isaiah 30:1  "Woe to the rebellious children," says the Lord, "Who take counsel, but not of Me, And who devise plans, but not of My Spirit, That they may add sin to sin;

30:8 Now go, write it before them on a tablet, And note it on a scroll, That it may be for time to come, Forever and ever: 9 That this is a rebellious people, Lying children, Children who will not hear the law of the Lord; 10 Who say to the seers, "Do not see," And to the prophets, "Do not prophesy to us right things; Speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits.

And the shepherds do just that:

Zech 11:15 And the Lord said to me, "Next, take for yourself the implements of a foolish shepherd. 16 "For indeed I will raise up a shepherd in the land who will not care for those who are cut off, nor seek the young, nor heal those that are broken, nor feed those that still stand. But he will eat the flesh of the fat and tear their hooves in pieces.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children. 7 "The more they increased, The more they sinned against Me; I will change their glory into shame. 8 They eat up the sin of My people; They set their heart on their iniquity. 9 And it shall be: like people, like priest. So I will punish them for their ways, And reward them for their deeds. 10 For they shall eat, but not have enough; They shall commit harlotry, but not increase; Because they have ceased obeying the Lord. 11 "Harlotry, wine, and new wine enslave the heart.

Jeremiah 5:As a cage is full of birds, So their houses are full of deceit. Therefore they have become great and grown rich. 28 They have grown fat, they are sleek; Yes, they surpass the deeds of the wicked; They do not plead the cause, The cause of the fatherless; Yet they prosper, And the right of the needy they do not defend. 29 Shall I not punish them for these things?' says the Lord. 'Shall I not avenge Myself on such a nation as this?' 30 "An astonishing and horrible thing Has been committed in the land: 31 The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule by their own power; And My people love to have it so. But what will you do in the end?

This is the state of the shepherds in America, and this is the way the children like it.  We must wake up and begin to tell the flock that they cannot persist in sin.  They cannot deny the power of God's grace.  That is what Jesus Christ purchased for us, the victory over sin!  Now what will we do in the end?

In His Love,

Suzanne

:il:

In His Love,

Suzanne

[George]

Suzanne! Nice to see you around!

Your brother in Messiah with much agape love,

George

[tsth]

Hi George,

Thank you. Nice to see you too.

:il:

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Andrew007]

Suzers! I didn't know you posted here! Good to see you here.

Peaches! I didn't know you posted here! Good to see you here also!