Made in The Image of God

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings,

Swordfish, stated the proposition of being in the image well. When Adam sinned, God could no longer have thee distinctive fellowship with him that he had prior. IOW, Adam died spiritually upon sinning. When Adam was kicked out of the Garden, he no longer had access to the Tree of Life, and he physically died. Both of these have been passed to us, his progeny.

Christ could never have died "spiritually", since He and the Father are one. And the reason He died physically is because "cursed is the man who hangs on a tree", and Christ had to be "lifted up" in order to die physically. He could have avoided death altogether, but He had us in mind and paid the penalty for our sins.

Please look up the word "image" in the Hebrew. It means likeness or similarity. Adam was NOT God and thus NOT perfect. Please reread the Romans verse I initially gave. Adam was NOT JUST MARRED, when he fell, the whole human race fell with him and thus there is no intrinsic value in the human race. The only reason God has continued to deal with man is that HE IS LOVE, and had a plan BEFORE ADAM for the salvation of all men, that is, those who would confess their sins (which Adam did not, nor Eve) and repent of their rebellion against God and accept the righteousness of Christ as their ONLY way of reconciliation with the Father.

Again, God created his creation subject to VANITY, IN HOPE..... He did this BEFORE ADAM was even created.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[apothanein kerdos]

We have not been reconciled to the "image of Adam", but to God through Christ. Adam lost that conciliation with God when he sinned and was booted out of the Garden. What does this have to do with the "image of God"?

Apparently you have no idea what "reconcile" means. Let me educate you:

To be reconciled, in the Biblical since, is to be brought back to something. My question is, if man was never perfect, if man has always been sinful, if man has always been in rebellion, then how can we be "brought back" if we have never belonged? Consequently, if we are not being restored to the complete image of God, what are we being reconciled (brought back) to? Your use of scripture, outside of this context, is just absurd.

There is only ONE that is PERFECT - EVER, and that is God!

It is true that God is the originator of perfection. However, if He is the only one who can be perfect this means that even when we are in Heaven and on the New Earth we will still be sinning. If, however, God can be perfect and those whom He chooses can be perfect, then it is quite possible that Adam was perfect. In fact, it is impossible for Adam to have been anything but perfect...you are asserting that God created an imperfection...this is a point you completely drop and ignore in your post.

Adam was NEVER made PERFECT. Being a man, he needed Christ just as much as we do today.

No he didn't. What you're preaching is nothing more than heresy. It is what the 1st Century Church fathers called heresy, and so I call it what it is. YOu are saying that God created man with an inherent need for a savoir...this means God created man in sin, thus God created sin and forced man into it. This means that God, by definition, is sinful because He forced man to sin. Adam did not need Christ prior to the fall. In fact, Adam only needed Christ AFTER the fall. It makes no sense why God would create man in sin...in fact...it's an imposibility.

Was Adam's name written in the Lamb's Book of Life? Scripture doesn't say, but if he were to have gotten into heaven - THEN he needed Christ. What is it that Christ overcame? DEATH!

And what you're asserting is that God caused this death and it was inherent within man. Are you so blind you can't see that?

But you see, you are ADDING to God's Word, something that is never said - that the original creation WAS PERFECT! Please refer back to the original scripture I gave. God subjected ALL creation to VANITY, IN HOPE....

This is absurd. Go back to school and take a reading comprehension class. This is what I posted:

Secondly, "very good" is more of a mistranslation or an inadequacy in the translation. The Hebrew here, tov meod, does mean "perfect." It means God used force to bring about something that was "acceptable." Is anything less than perfection acceptable to God? Are you seriously going to assert that God has a standard that falls short of perfection? This is why tov meod comes with the implication that "very good" means perfect. It means "created to a state of agreeable pleasentry" and appeals to the physical, ethical, and spiritual status of creation. To say that creation was not perfect is saying, "God created something and had standards less than perfection." There is no getting out of that.

That's infallible no matter how you want to look at it. That is simply how the Hebrew is written out, and to say it's wrong is to speak in ignorance.

Again I refer you to the Romans' verse when God says: HE SUBJECTED CREATION TO VANITY IN HOPE.....

You use that to negate grammatical truths in Hebrew? You should probably remove yourself from this discussion...you've lost all credibility at this point. Secondly, let's look at this "trump card" you keep bringing up:

Paul is refering to God subjecting creation to frustration (that is the actual translation of the Greek word). Notice the context; Paul is speaking solely of the fall. In other words, Paul is not saying that God subjected it to frustration from creation but instead this occured after the fall. Due to sin, God subjected all of creation to frustration in hope that the redemption (restoration) would soon occur. It has nothing to do with original creation and everything to do with creation post-fall.

Fact is, you can't refute my interpretation of Genesis, that's why you tried to restort to this.

Romans 6:19-20 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Psalms 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Psalms 53:2-34 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. 3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

These all deal with man post-fall, so I fail to see your point.

When God said there is NONE that doeth GOOD, did that mean Adam BEFORE THE FALL? Had he been GOOD, he would have obeyed God! Yet because of the "frailty" of the flesh, he was quickly overcome by lustful desires.

Wow, that is outright heresy. No bones about it. You are saying that God created man in sin. You are saying that God created man with a sin nature. You are saying that God's creation was inadequate. You are even going against scripture and saying that God's creation wasn't good. Why are you in the believer's category? You cannot be a Christian and say the things you are saying, the two are mutually exclusive. You worship a much different god than I do. Your god is not all powerful, is corrupt, created man in a fallen nature, and is a fallen being. My God created a perfect creation, declared it to His standards ("very good") which are perfection, and man fell on his own. There was no flaw in my God's creation, but obviously your god is bumbling idiot who can't even create things corectly. You fit more in the Gnostic sect of beliefs than true Christianity.

You mentioned "straw men" in a post to Ruck (I believe), yet what are you doing here?

Drawing a proper implication. If man is not in the image of God post-fall, then murder is no longer a sin. Again, Genesis 9, have someone read it to you.

Consider:

Job 17:14 I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister.

Psalms 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Isaiah 41:14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

Then consider:

Psalms 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Hebrews 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1 Cor 15:49-50 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Jesus was made "in the image of Adam (PREFALL)". Is not Jesus made like unto us? If not, then how could He have died for our sins?

This has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote. Provide some analysis if you're going to try and reply.

I have already said, God created man FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES. Another poster said it well: "Adam AND US were created to reveal the Glory of God". or words to that effect.

And that's not the correct answer. If we were created for glory then:

* Why are we the only ones in His image?

* Why are we the only ones with a super intellect?

* Why are we the only ones with culture?

* Why are we the only ones He came to die for?

* Why are we the only ones that were given culture?

* Why did He create other things?

* Why did He make us unique?

If we are here solely for His glory, then it makes no sense as to why He let us fall. Instead, we were created to represent Him, we were created so that He could love someone and be loved by someone, as well as His glory. He did not create us for glory alone.

Under your religion (and I stress, your religion) we have the following problems:

1) Flesh is inherently sinful, thus if Christ took on actual flesh, He was inherently a sinner

2) Since God is the only one that can be perfect, we will sin in the afterlife

3) God created man in a sinful state

4) God created man inadequate

5) God created an imperfect creation

6) God's standards are less than perfect

7) God instilled sin into man

8) Man has lost this image of God and is therefore of no value

9) Because man is of no value and no longer in God's image, killing him is no longer a sin (see Genesis 9)

I could go on, but I won't. YOu still haven't, and won't, explain my interpretation of image. You won't because you can't, it's that simple. I don't give myself too much credit, I simply know the facts of this isssue. I have little patience for heresy, especially Gnostic heresy. I know this post has seemed rude, and it is, but like I said, I will not tolerate heresy. None of the early church fathers did, and no Christian worth his weight has since then. I don't see why I should have to. Oh, and don't forget:

1 Corinthians 11:7 - Paul equates us to the image of God still.

James 3:9 - If we curse our fellow man, Christian or not, we are cursing the image of God. To James, this means that no matter what we are still in God's image.

1 Peter 1:18-19 - We could not be bought with gold or silver but only by the blood of Christ. This shows the importance of man.

Romans 8:29 - Christ is to restore us to a complete image of God, to get rid of the distortion that sin has caused.

Romans 8:20 - Creation is to be restored to its former glory. Now, if creation was originally flawful and not perfect, this means God is restoring it to a state of non-perfection...the state it is in now. Like I said, the god you worship is absolutely worthless, an idiot, and a waste of your time.

[kittylover0991]

Hey folks,

This is a question that someone brought up to me one time, and I just can't stop thinking about it

At the time of creation of the earth... God created man in His image.. hence, we were created perfect. Question, we are born sinners because "by one man sin entered into the world".... Are we still in the image of God?

Searching for an Answer,

Crystal

Crystal...there certainly are detailed answers that precede my post. Much of it is good and some of it too wordy...some of it I haven't digested completely when I posted. But your question is good and in it lies the key to understanding the plight of man and the restoration of man. In the image of God is the compatability potential that God created in us to have fellowship with Him. It has been damaged by the fall of man, so it is in need of repair. That is where Jesus came in to build the bridge of reconciliation. While man regardless of behavior is still man in the image of God, He needs to be conformed to the image of His Son in order to enjoy the intimacy with God that he was created to have.

Thanks David

I know very little when it comes to theology and I think my head was starting to spin in circles.. almost like when I first learned about tongues... It seems that there are so many different views to this question.. yes, many that believe it is marred and destroyed(a friend of mine who was bashed very rudely), and there are some who believe that it is can be fixed.. or something like that with Christ.... I bet even within those ideas there are many controversies... I just wish I knew which one to believe...

I mean, they both make sense in their own way

It has been damaged- we are born sinners and will be sinners to the day we die .. "In my flesh dwelleth no good thing"...

It can be fixed- Jesus said he would heal us from unrighteousness

however, to go back to the first, we will never be perfect.... yet, Jesus can make us perfect when he asked him to cleanse us by his blood(course then we go back to sin oftentimes, but that is another story)...

This just seems to go around in circles...

However, God did create Adam and Eve perfect.... that is how God was able to fellowship with them... because they SINNED they could no longer walk with God in the way they had in the Garden of Eden... "By one man, sin entered into the world"... God gave Adam and Eve free will.. they chose sin... that simple....

What does the bible mean by "Image of God"... perfect? if "like God", then how?

I am sorry if I missed that explanation within the posts...

[EricH]

We are still in the image of God. That image however is marred by sin.

[Kabowd]

What does the bible mean by "Image of God"... perfect? if "like God", then how?

I am sorry if I missed that explanation within the posts...

Everything we are that seperates us from all other created things: we are creative, we have culture, we have reasoning/logic skills, we have compassion, we love, etc. All of these things (and more) are the result of the imago dei. Everything that is good about human beings is "like God". Of course, we are fallen, so our reflection is tainted. Think of it like looking into a mirror that is cracked or fogged over. You can still see the image, but it isn't clear and distinct. If we lose the image of God, we have lost our humanity.

[FocusOnJesus]

*won't comment on this topic again until the egg is wiped off his face and the bone is pulled out of his head*

[Openly Curious]

This stuff is to deep for me mostly everybody I see around me is not marred physically as far as their looks are concerned except the ugly ones (only kidding) everbody is still born in the image of God. In the same way little chilren bear resemblance of their parents you can see the resemblance of them in their children. It is sin that marrs us spiritually not our image. when we sin spot then get's on our garments but not our physical bodies but spiritually and you can't see it with our eyes but sins stains are still there just the same. Outwardly we are wasting and fading away but inwardly we are being renewed day by day and moving from one level of glory to the next as God works on us. My physical image remains the same although it is growing older with time. Jesus's life show us this also he was created in the image of God and grew to adulthood as we do he died on the cross went to the grave arose on the third day and was seen of his diciples even appeared to doubting Thomas and said to him thrust your hand in my side and put your fingers in my nail prints. Jesus had a glorified body but it was no longer subject to the pain sorrow and so forth as before but His image was the same it did not change as they recognized him even. But just as we bear this earthly image we shall also bear the heavenly image when we are glorified and changed at the resurrection just as Jesus was.

OC

[kittylover0991]

*won't comment on this topic again until the egg is wiped off his face and the bone is pulled out of his head*

Hey Focus,

... forgive....

Crystal

Hey Focus, since it seems you don't have many posts on here, I would advice reading everythign that has been posted and to respond in a way that not only states your opinion, but uses verses to back it up Hope to see you later and Welcome to Worthy Boards

[Kabowd]

*won't comment on this topic again until the egg is wiped off his face and the bone is pulled out of his head*

Sure hope I didn't offend you in responding to your post. I was just correcting some of the things you said so that the truth would be more clear. I meant it to be helpful. Kittylover gave some good advice above too.

[vitality22004]

We were created in His image: He is spirit. When we are saved, we come into Christ, the perfect man, and once again we are in the image of God...our soul and body willcatch up as we work out our salvation in fear and trembling and when our mortality shall put on immortality...until then we abide in Him and He in us, so we reflect His image in what we choose, think and feel.

God Bless