Co-habitating

[David from New Bern]

In my years of trying to be an effective minister, I often find myself ministering to people living together, co-habitating, or as my dad calls it "shacking up". This thread is not about is it sinful? I think we know that it is. This thread concerns the process as ministers (which we all are) of helping someone sort through the confusion they have created for themselve by living as married when they are not. I often encounter backslidden Christians in these situations and financially unable to live separate in their own estimation, and sometimes even with children. I have run into situations of a new Christians needing to deal with either marrying someone they now see different, but they 5 plus years in the relationship and children together. More often, I find people who haven't married because their estranged spouse will not give them a divorce. I have found older people living together because if they get married they will lose public assistance. I hope I have explained the mirky waters of this modern dilema which is getting worse and not better. What sort of advice would you give? What is the church's responsibility?

[His Ambassador]

In my years of trying to be an effective minister, I often find myself ministering to people living together, co-habitating, or as my dad calls it "shacking up". This thread is not about is it sinful? I think we know that it is. This thread concerns the process as ministers (which we all are) of helping someone sort through the confusion they have created for themselve by living as married when they are not. I often encounter backslidden Christians in these situations and financially unable to live separate in their own estimation, and sometimes even with children. I have run into situations of a new Christians needing to deal with either marrying someone they now see different, but they 5 plus years in the relationship and children together. More often, I find people who haven't married because their estranged spouse will not give them a divorce. I have found older people living together because if they get married they will lose public assistance. I hope I have explained the mirky waters of this modern dilema which is getting worse and not better. What sort of advice would you give? What is the church's responsibility?

First of all David, there is no Scripture prohibiting those of opposite gender from sharing a home. And lest you throw in the "avoid the appearance of evil" verse here a couple sharing a home would "appear" evil only in the mind of the observer who is assuming the couple is having sex. Secondly, if the couple IS having sex and have made a life-long commitment to each other a case could be made that they are "Biblically" married they are just not civilly married. There are those who choose to go without a state authorized marriage because they don't want to put their marriage under the control of the state. If you are calling a couple who chose to share a home or even have sex "backslidden" you are unable to counsel them because you have already judged them in your mind.

If I were to counsel them before any of the above took place I would advise them not to cohabitate to avoid the judgemental attitudes of people such as the one you have displayed. If they insist on doing it I would perform a "religious" ceremony dedicating the union to God giving them a cetificate of marriage or entering the ceremony on the "Marriages" page of a family Bible as was done in this country before the states began requiring fees and marriage licenses.

[mike2]

In my years of trying to be an effective minister, I often find myself ministering to people living together, co-habitating, or as my dad calls it "shacking up". This thread is not about is it sinful? I think we know that it is. This thread concerns the process as ministers (which we all are) of helping someone sort through the confusion they have created for themselve by living as married when they are not. I often encounter backslidden Christians in these situations and financially unable to live separate in their own estimation, and sometimes even with children. I have run into situations of a new Christians needing to deal with either marrying someone they now see different, but they 5 plus years in the relationship and children together. More often, I find people who haven't married because their estranged spouse will not give them a divorce. I have found older people living together because if they get married they will lose public assistance. I hope I have explained the mirky waters of this modern dilema which is getting worse and not better. What sort of advice would you give? What is the church's responsibility?

What is marriage but a piece of paper?

I'm sure that is a statement we have all heard, but, take the time to really consider that statement.

How do you describe what makes a marriage as opposed to me, as opposed to a native in an Amazon jungle , as opposed to someone with a different upbringing than me?

Especially in view of our modern dilema.

Undoubtedly, two Christians would get the piece of paper if for no other reason than appearances and credibility. But I believe the commitment is already made before making it "legal"

How is marriage described in the bible? (seriously how is it? )

How does that compare to what you or I or the church of today thinks.?

Would a Muslim marriage be invalid because it is not the same as the Christian churchs view?

[David from New Bern]

In my years of trying to be an effective minister, I often find myself ministering to people living together, co-habitating, or as my dad calls it "shacking up". This thread is not about is it sinful? I think we know that it is. This thread concerns the process as ministers (which we all are) of helping someone sort through the confusion they have created for themselve by living as married when they are not. I often encounter backslidden Christians in these situations and financially unable to live separate in their own estimation, and sometimes even with children. I have run into situations of a new Christians needing to deal with either marrying someone they now see different, but they 5 plus years in the relationship and children together. More often, I find people who haven't married because their estranged spouse will not give them a divorce. I have found older people living together because if they get married they will lose public assistance. I hope I have explained the mirky waters of this modern dilema which is getting worse and not better. What sort of advice would you give? What is the church's responsibility?

First of all David, there is no Scripture prohibiting those of opposite gender from sharing a home. And lest you throw in the "avoid the appearance of evil" verse here a couple sharing a home would "appear" evil only in the mind of the observer who is assuming the couple is having sex. Secondly, if the couple IS having sex and have made a life-long commitment to each other a case could be made that they are "Biblically" married they are just not civilly married. There are those who choose to go without a state authorized marriage because they don't want to put their marriage under the control of the state. If you are calling a couple who chose to share a home or even have sex "backslidden" you are unable to counsel them because you have already judged them in your mind.

If I were to counsel them before any of the above took place I would advise them not to cohabitate to avoid the judgemental attitudes of people such as the one you have displayed. If they insist on doing it I would perform a "religious" ceremony dedicating the union to God giving them a cetificate of marriage or entering the ceremony on the "Marriages" page of a family Bible as was done in this country before the states began requiring fees and marriage licenses.

Bob, I don't know why but your response surprised me. "Avoid the apearance of evil" should be enough grounds I would say, that is what we offer the Lord is our lives and our personal testimony is of great value. Most of the time these unions are afraid of commitment, and therefore the expression of love is a lie. For what is love without commitment, self-gratification. In my state co-habitating is still against the law. So, technically they are breaking the law. They present themelves as married and therefore are living a lie. Certainly, in cases of children produced they have brought their children into the lie. "If you are calling a couple who chose to share a home or even have sex 'backslidden' you are unable to caounsel them because you have already judged them in your mind" I really didn't expect to hear that...You misinterpreted my scenario. I was saying that in their drift from the Lord they also began a relationship of this sort but now through repentance they are trying to put their life back in order. However, your take on the situation is very revealing. You evidently believe as long as it is termed as monogamous it is OK. I differ with you greatly, and my friend please don't you counsel in this situation.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

I would start looking into the meaning of the Covenant that God has with His people as a model to start all discussions with.

Is that Covenant easy for God? Sincere question.

Peace,

Dave

[abbershay]

I think there is much to learn about this subject . I think about this a lot as i go through the singles sites , so many christians who are divorced.

I often wondered about the woman at the well , she had 5 husbands and the man she was living with was not her husband.

What did Yeshua do?

do he say hey what are you doing living with this guy you are going to hell?

He didnt say anything about it other than state what had happened in her life and then she was the first person that he told who he was .....

This is the first person Yeshua tells he is the messiah.......

[dakota190]

Butero,

i liked your answer, but i wanted to add something. my computer ate my original, so i will try to rebuild a condensed version. we are not living in the early west, where preachers and judges were few and far between. we are living in a society that until my generation, 60's-70's, living together was called a sin, living in sin, you couldn't both sign onto a lease together unless the woman signed the man's last name. even in the old west, couples would travel to a minister or appear before a circuit preacher at their first opportunity. even the indians had a ceremony for marriage. slaves in a repressed institution, had a ceremony for getting married. marriage is a sign, a promise of fidelity and a reassurance that one or the other will not just up and leave when the going gets tough. if a couple wants to be together, and they claim to love one another, what is the problem? you are not giving the govt. control of anything. sure the taxes are different, and the legal responsibilities are more binding. if they both intend to be there for the other forever, then stand before a minister and sign the paper. let them put action to their words. would you live with someone and help them buy a house and you not have any rights to that house or any of the equity, should the person whose name is on the contract decide to throw you out? same question in relation to a car, boat, stereo, etc; if you can't trust someone to give you a legal assurance of their future plans, why would you invest financially in them. God forbid, children be brought into such an unstable environment. every time someone gets mad, they either threaten to or they walk out the door, even if for no more than effect. the emotional and mental, shoot even the spiritual impact would be damaging. if someone is or desires to live a christian life, they should want to live in an approved manner, not waste time looking for ways to circumvent, by legalism, what is considered right, if not biblically, in this instance walk with society. in a spirit of humility, this should not even be an issue for a couple in love, wanting to live a christian life. it will not cause the church to implode, but can they really praise God in church, and at the same time feel good about what they are doing? knowing how it is viewed?

anyway, although lengthy, maybe something here will give you something to use in counseling this couple.

Edited April 27, 2006 by dakota190

[His Ambassador]

Bob, I don't know why but your response surprised me. "Avoid the apearance of evil" should be enough grounds I would say, that is what we offer the Lord is our lives and our personal testimony is of great value. Most of the time these unions are afraid of commitment, and therefore the expression of love is a lie. For what is love without commitment, self-gratification. In my state co-habitating is still against the law. So, technically they are breaking the law. They present themelves as married and therefore are living a lie. Certainly, in cases of children produced they have brought their children into the lie. "If you are calling a couple who chose to share a home or even have sex 'backslidden' you are unable to caounsel them because you have already judged them in your mind" I really didn't expect to hear that...You misinterpreted my scenario. I was saying that in their drift from the Lord they also began a relationship of this sort but now through repentance they are trying to put their life back in order. However, your take on the situation is very revealing. You evidently believe as long as it is termed as monogamous it is OK. I differ with you greatly, and my friend please don't you counsel in this situation.

You, like many other ministers, have confused State civil marriage with Biblical marriage. There is no state requiring a couple to pay the fee and have you, or any minister, represent the state at a civil ceremony UNLESS the couple wants to claim they are civilly married and legally protected because of it. I do not know of any state that has outlawed a couple living together and would have to see such law to believe it. Many states HAVE eliminated common-law marriages from their books. Simply because a couple has drifted from the Lord does not make their Biblical marriage sinful. But apparently because you and many other ministers have bought into the idea that a State civil marriage is the same as a Biblical marriage you will probably argue it until the Lord returns. But you asked for our take on it and that is mine. I am at peace before the Lord about it. But if you don't like it that is your problem. I simply gave you the answer you asked for.

[Shelak]

In my years of trying to be an effective minister, I often find myself ministering to people living together, co-habitating, or as my dad calls it "shacking up". This thread is not about is it sinful? I think we know that it is. This thread concerns the process as ministers (which we all are) of helping someone sort through the confusion they have created for themselve by living as married when they are not. I often encounter backslidden Christians in these situations and financially unable to live separate in their own estimation, and sometimes even with children. I have run into situations of a new Christians needing to deal with either marrying someone they now see different, but they 5 plus years in the relationship and children together. More often, I find people who haven't married because their estranged spouse will not give them a divorce. I have found older people living together because if they get married they will lose public assistance. I hope I have explained the mirky waters of this modern dilema which is getting worse and not better. What sort of advice would you give? What is the church's responsibility?

Hi,

Maybe you should just find a really good Christian Councelor and have them give this person a call, set up some counciling sessions, and operate in the gifts the Lord has given you ... Now I dont know you, but from the sound of it maybe giving council isnt your gift?? Just a thought.

I too look at the way our society is changing and am amazed at how l ife in the USA has changed since I was a kid in the late 50's-60's. But God is still God, He is in contorl of everything, all these things must happen.

Keep you hand on the rudder and stay the course.

Even so Lord come quickly!

Shelak

[vitality22004]

I think the question I often ask couples in this situation is 'Why not?' Often the excuses that are piled up...are just excuses not to commit....marriage can be viewed as just a piece of paper ...or the legalising of relationships...in God's eyes....it is a covenant, an eternal one...that He instituted as a picture of Christ's love for the church...Old or New Testament...marriage is upheld....Jesus spoke of it....Paul taught on it.... So the question to these couples would be...if this is God's best for you, why not? Ultimately, it is a question of obedience for me. I am sure that they seek counsel and they ask the question because they feel an inner conviction that it is not right...not because of the judgement of others but because the Spirit of God gently leads them to that understanding. And then there's the fruit of marriage, the children....their greatest protection legally and spiritually lies in parental obedience to the Word of God.....the sowing and reaping....affects their lives too....

Our job as counsellors is to speak the truth in love despite the popular, social, cultural, humanly challenged and limited resaonings of the situation. As for the civil versus religous versus legal marriageargument...it is simple...render unto Caesar...if the law of the land says...this is marriage...then that's the way to do it. Finally, I think that God is a God of covenant and He is not interested in a legally binding agreement that forces people who cohabit to be married...when He said He hates divorce in Malachi..He was talking about the spirit of a marriage, the actual union between two people which is a love relationship...there are many married Christians living in the spirit of divorce with conflict and bitterness and distrust...the complete antithesis of God's intention. As for sex and relationships...well the marriage bed and only the marriage bed is sanctified... that's that...