SCIENCE!!!

[secondeve]

hr.jr:

I was only trying to point out that, if you argue as though all your points are self-evident, it is non-productive, as I can do exactly the same thing in response and it gets us nowhere. Without evidence, or some kind of explanation of our positions, we're only doing so much talking.

[IraBenYahweh]

I'm a christian, but right now, I'm questioning it. I was even thinking about being a pastor for a bit, but now, I'm finding tons of things that support an antichristian view almsot without flaw. What do i do? I mean, I'm a very scientific person, and very intellectual if you will, so I'm looking for some 'proof' of God's existence. HELP ME! I know they say live by faith and not by sight, but please help, cuz im finding it hard to........

Troy Boy Nebula has a real Good question for ya. But it is not answer This is what you need to remember the fight is for the mind and satan is trying for some reason to get you stopped. Why becuase in the near future you most likly have a apointment with some one satan does not overly want to loose. the main thing is this Resist satan submit to God had satan will flee. What i recomend is some spirtual ware fare books (ya gotta becarefull though as you dont need to get carried away with it like some authors do.)

here are 3 books that do not go over the top with it

victory over the darknes

bondage breaker

By neal anderson

Handbook to spiritual warfare

by ed murphey

if you are not sure what you believe in as far as fighting the enemy goes here is a good fiction book to read kinda helps a person feel when they are being attacked

this preasant darkness. Frank pretti

Also directly dealing with what you are talking about is

Kent Hovind he is the best on science and God If you would like his dvd set i may be able to help Just let me know and we will see if it can be worked out

[Soul_Searcher50]

Hi Troyboy,

"I'm a christian, but right now, I'm questioning it."

What exactly are you questioning? The Jesus story? God itself? The biblical God? The Resurrection? All of it?

"I was even thinking about being a pastor for a bit, but now, I'm finding tons of things that support an antichristian view almsot without flaw."

Anti-Christian how? What? Again, please be specific.

"What do i do?"

A couple of things. Read the Gospels (only) and think about the things that Jesus said. Do they make sense? Do you see yourself living as he taught?

Think about the universe. What is it comprised of? How did it get here? Could it have been 'created' or was it just an accident?

"I mean, I'm a very scientific person, and very intellectual if you will, so I'm looking for some 'proof' of God's existence."

There isn't any. If you want a couple of suggestions on reading or watching, I can provide that. They may not give you answers, but they'll make you think! Remember, even science has its limits.

"HELP ME! I know they say live by faith and not by sight, but please help, cuz im finding it hard to."

You have to have faith of some sort, even if it's in science. Live by what is right; what is in your heart? What gives you joy? What does love produce. Start there.

[cjrose]

I'm a christian, but right now, I'm questioning it. I was even thinking about being a pastor for a bit, but now, I'm finding tons of things that support an antichristian view almsot without flaw. What do i do? I mean, I'm a very scientific person, and very intellectual if you will, so I'm looking for some 'proof' of God's existence. HELP ME! I know they say live by faith and not by sight, but please help, cuz im finding it hard to........

Hey, we all doubt at times, but when you open that door to doubts you know who takes a hold of that door and will little by little open it wider and wider with more and more doubts until you are buried under the weight of doubt. That's the beauty of faith. You only need a mustard seed size and with each trusting and resisting of temptations, your faith grows and grows. Just ask the One who made you, He knows your fears, He won't let you down. No one said the road of Faith was smooth and easy, it's not. LNJ

So very well put! One reason we must always wear the armor of God so that little inch of doubt doesn't open the door wider and wider. It is our faith that protects us. Faith in what we cannot see but know in our heart to be true because God speaks to us. That's the difference between science and faith. Science relies on research and proof. Faith is also research but in Gods word and relies on belief that what God says through the gospels are truth.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

SoulSearcher;

You have to have faith of some sort, even if it's in science. Live by what is right; what is in your heart? What gives you joy? What does love produce. Start there.

I would venture a better way to Live would be to have Faith in Gods Word. To measure everything by it. Emotions are tricky things at best. Yes Love and Joy are good angles.

To say Live by what is Right.

you must first have a definition of what is indeed Right.

Faith in Science is no good. It is an ever changing yardstick with which to measure.

Ah' But Gods Word doesn't change because God does not change;

Heb

[undone]

Troy Boy,

I've been there too. I've had moments in my life where I was challenged to believe. At those times, I stop to think about some realities regarding my faith. Some of those include:

I cannot believe that this universe, this creation is without a creator.

The Words of God have always rang true to me. They have never let me down.

The statistical probability that Jesus wasn't who he said he was based on the fulfillment of all the prophecies are astronomical.

I've seen too many lives changed for the better, almost instantly. Mine included. If you wish, PM me and I'll share my testimony with you.

I've had unexplainable answers to prayer. They may seem of small consequence to some, but I have had those times. Again, PM me if you desire further detail.

The likelihood that 11 insignificant Galileans and one converted Pharisee, as well as many others (as well as Christ himself), would give there very lives, be outcast, tortured, and killed for a lie, seems too unlikely to me. Somebody would have spilled the beans.

The bible is filled with historical references that are backed up with other references and archeological finds that only help my belief.

I have personally been affected by a powerful outpouring of the Holy Spirit. An unexplainable experience that lasted for over two days.

When I've experienced the challenges to my faith, I consider who the enemy is and if I fell, who would like nothing more.

When I've experienced these challenges, I believe they are tests (as the Word promises) and they help build an area of weakness that has been exposed. It causes me to fervently dig in to the Word, listen to teaching, and pray earnestly for God to reveal to me the answers I so desperately need. And indeed, in time, God honors this request and provides me with the information I need to dispel the lie. This is as it should be, that we remain dependent on Him. I've noticed that many times when this may happen, its just about the time I've started feeling cocky about my knowledge of spiritual things. It's a quick reminder that I am dependent on Him for all my needs.

I hope this helps my friend. Remember, despite what science says, we as Christians have to believe in the miraculous capabilities of our God. If He couldn't perform miracles or the supernatural, then He couldn't have created the universe. Jesus would not have been born of a virgin and would not have been raised from the dead. So, if we indeed have a miraculous God and of course I believe we do, the explanations science provides for things, cannot account for miracles. All the things science trys to dispute are possible because, as His Word says, "All things are possible with God."

Science should be, and in many case is, in the business of discovering the secrets of Gods magnificent creation. We are not meant to understand everything. The bible's intention is not to explain every detail of God's creation (the why's and how's). The purpose of it's message is so that we may find Him. Think of all the things Jesus could have done while on earth. Being God, he could have revealed all those secrets but that was not His mission. His mission was to fulfill the law, all the prophecies and provide the needed sacrifice to save mankind. His next mission will be to totally do away with the enemy and re-establish the Kingdom back to its original state as it was intended to be in the first place.

I hope this helps.

Many blessings my brother.

[Soul_Searcher50]

Hi Dave,

Peace be with you.

"I would venture a better way to Live would be to have Faith in God's Word. To measure everything by it. Emotions are tricky things at best. Yes Love and Joy are good angles."

I'd say it's better to have faith in God than what you believe to be God's Word. God speaks to all, not some. God uses many devices to speak to the world and us, not one. The Bible is no more God's Word than is the Bhagavad Gita or the Qu'ran--but it is no LESS so either. I cannot believe the Creator of the Universe would use one book to explain itself to Man--especially when I believe God speaks to us all all the time (the listening part is up to us).

To say Live by what is Right, you must first have a definition of what is indeed Right.

This is true, but what it Right to you and what is Right to me may be different, even if we both believe in God and Jesus. To use an exaggerated example: Man X and Man Y are Christians. Both believe abortion is wrong. Man X believes so strongly he supports the murdering of abortion doctors. Man Y is horrified at the thought of killing anyone, even a person who kills fetuses. Who is right?

"Faith in Science is no good. It is an ever changing yardstick with which to measure."

It is everchanging because it is always seeking proof, and as our measuring sticks improve, theories change and evolve. Still, it's basis is evidence and provable facts--provable in the sense that experiments must be able to be recreated. This cannot be done with religions and faith. What I've experienced in my life that led me to God and what you've experienced to lead you to your faith may well be polar opposites, yet we both have a deep and profound love and faith in God; we just view God differently.

What science shows is that the universe as we know it is 14 +/- billion years old. Bible literalists would have us believe the universe is 6,000 years old. Who is right? Which side has the evidence to back up its claim? Science. Does that make the Bible irrelevant? No. What it does is show that the stories are mostly allegorical, not literal fact, and there is nothing wrong with that. It does not negate the central idea of the Bible that if we have faith in God we will be provided for and protected.

"Ah' But God's Word doesn't change because God does not change."

God's Word (the Bible) doesn't change because it was canonized 1600 years ago. God does not change; what changes is our definition of God from person to person, religion to religion, and even denomination to denomination. I don't believe any one of us has it right, no matter what we believe or what we use for reference. We all seek God; we all seek Truth. You found it in the Bible and that's wonderful. I find much in the Bible to love and strengthen my faith, I also find much in the Gitas and the Upanishads and the writings of Buddha and Lao Tzu and others, for when I read (some of) their words, I can hear God.

The next time you hear a poem that touches you, or a song that speaks to your heart, or a child speaking a universal truth, know that that is God speaking to you. Take heart in the message you've received this day and rejoice, for God is showing that He is always with you.

"Heb 13:8: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever."

Now this is different. Jesus is not the Bible, and the Bible is not Jesus. Yes, Jesus is the same, for Jesus is God.

Love and Peace,

SS

[Michael333]

I'm a christian, but right now, I'm questioning it. I was even thinking about being a pastor for a bit, but now, I'm finding tons of things that support an antichristian view almsot without flaw. What do i do? I mean, I'm a very scientific person, and very intellectual if you will, so I'm looking for some 'proof' of God's existence. HELP ME! I know they say live by faith and not by sight, but please help, cuz im finding it hard to........

Proofs for the Existence of God

Through the use of human reason alone, man can know that God exists:

Our holy mother, the Church, holds and teaches that God, the first principle and last end of all things, can be known with certainty from the created world by the natural light of human reason. (Catechism of the Catholic Church 36).

Not only does reason tell us that God exists, it also reveals many important things about God: that He is one, spiritual, eternal, and uncreated. Some things about God cannot be know by human reason alone, such as the Trinity and the Incarnation. These mysteries can only be known by public revelation.

The need for a First Cause

Everyone with the use of reason can quickly understand that everything in the material universe is explained by a previous cause. Nothing begins to exist without a cause. Nothing can cause its own existence. Every material object is the end product of a long chain of causes. If we go back far enough, we end up asking the ultimate questions: why does matter exist at all?? Where does it come from?

Nothing in the Universe has ever been observed to cause its own existence, to make itself exist when it didn't exist before. Nothing just "pops" itself into existence. Would the argument change if matter ALWAYS existed? No. Matter would still need a cause to explain its existence. Remember, nothing can make itself, nothing can give itself existence. Even if matter were eternal, there would have to be a co-eternal, infinite power that caused matter to exist. This co-eternal power wouldn't be prior in time, but would be prior in causality, since it gave matter its eternal existence.

GOD always existed. He alone is the First Cause, the Uncaused Cause on which all other causes depend. We can't have an ininite series of causes without eventually arriving at the First Cause. The First Cause doesn't depend on anything. It simply IS and always was.

Recent discoveries in astrophysics have proven scientifically that the universe had a clear beginning: the Big Bang. This makes the First Cause proof especially compelling to atheists and easy to demonstrate. Just ask yourself: "Who set off the Big Bang?" Many astrophysicists who are on the cutting edge of recent discoveries are answering, "God!"

[Michael333]

...Next Proof for Existence of God: The Need for an Intelligent Designer

When we see an extremely complicated system that has been perfectly constructed for a clear purpose, common sense tells us that an intelligent being is responsible.

For example: if we found a perfectly running watch in the middle of the wilderness, we wouldn't even consider that this watch came into existence by chance. Why? For 2 important reasons:

1. The object is composed of many complicated, perfectly arranged parts.

2. The object was designed for a clear purpose: to tell time.

We immediately know there must have been an intelligent being responsible for the watch. No atheist would argue with this obvious conclusion.

NEXT: lets consider the Human Eye. It is amazingly complicated organ that is arranged for a clear purpose: to see. The development of the eye from the first cells in the embryo to the fully mature organ consists of countless steps in which many complex elements come together perfectly. The chain of steps is extremely long, as any microbiologist will confirm. This long, intricate process proceeds toward a clear purpose: to form an organ capable of sight.

Assembling a watch is relatively easy. BUT no one thinks watches are made by chance. Assembling an Eye is unbelievably complicated. All the scientists in the world working together with the most advanced technology cannot synthesize a human eye. Yet, Athiests insist the development of the human eye is the result of purely random, chaotic processes. The marvel of the human eye virtually screams "Intelligent Design!" Intelligent design demands an intelligent designer.

Lets look at the start of the Universe - aka: "The Big Bang". This awesome blast had to be regulated within an extremely narrow range in order for the universe to be formed. If the speed of the elements in the explosion had moved just fractionally faster or slower, there would have been only chaos instead of the amazingly complex, perfectly organized universe we know. SCIENTISTS tell us that events appeared to have been "guided" to bring about a planet like earth, capable of sustaining intellignet life.

(Check out the book by Hugh Ross: The Creator and the Cosmos: How the Greatest Scientific Discoveries of the Century Reveal God (Colorado Springs, CO: NavPress, 1995)

[Michael333]

Before we go any further with this 'discussion', I would like to know a few things about Lepaca and Daniel Dennett and also Troyboy . What do you believe happens to you when you die? What do you look forward to as you get older and closer to death? Do you believe you will see your parents ever again after they die? We are all going to die sometime. That goes without saying.

I would like to "sit down" and talk about what you truly believe the 'meaning of life' is for you. Why do we humans (intelligent beings, separate from the rest of the animals) even exist? Can you truly say that we are here due to Cells that, over billions of years, happened to form into humans, due to evolution/"natural selection", that are capable of Reason, Ideas, Thought processes, etc? What happend to the rest of the animals? Did they just happen to not get "selected" by nature for this?

Basically, I don't want to know what theories you have read about or what you have heard/opinions from someone else. What do YOU feel, in your hearts, about the questions above is right?