HOW MANY WAYS CAN WE BE SAVED?

[Guest NewPilgrim]

As I have noted in another thread, the proclamation of James that faith without works is dead and theat works without faith are dead means simply this.

Faith in God produces good works, because by faith God is able to work through us. If a man claims to have faith, but has no works, then he doesnt have faith, despite his claims.

Works without faith, no matter how obedient to Gods will cannot save us because it is only belief in Yeshua (Jesus) that can save us, as stated by Paul and Silas therefore works without faith are dead to us, they will not profit us in terms of our own salvation. Likewise even for the believer, works which are not founded on our love for God (doing things with a selfish or sinful motivation) will also be dead to us. The faithful are rewarded at judgement for their good works, but many works will be dismissed, burned as by fire and these works also being without faith are dead.

[Gerioke]

Luke 23: 39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

How was Abraham Saved?

I want to throw something out into this discussion.

Abraham came from a people debased by mans ideas of Religion. There was a land of idol worship and human sacrifice he came from called Babylon. Ur of the Chaldee's was steeped in this course. Yet it was here that Abraham first heard the Word of God.There came a time when God commanded Abraham to go to a Mount in Moriah. Abraham had been through very much. The promise of a son had been fulfilled. Abraham had lied his way through Egypt, through a promise of God he tried to rig the outcome. His children and childrens children carried on the same type of lies and jerry rigging of Gods promises.

Yet this faithful day at the Mount in Moriah was a testing that Abraham had to pass thorugh. A time of deliverance too. For God was about to teach Abraham a lesson that would last a lifetime. He was about to releive Abraham of mans notions about Religion and what pleased God. Yet still and all his children didn't heed the warning. God brought Abraham and the son of the promise to that Mount to deal with the fact that Abraham needed to stop offering God something. Some work based upon what he could do. He needed to finally rest in the trust of his Salvation in Gods promise.

God did more in those moments of Trust in Liberation for Abraham than a whole life of lies and manipulation had accomplished.

Abraham surely had works. What was the work of Abraham?

It was to believe the Word of God which brought forth Fruit in his life. Finally!

What system or code did he follow? No my friends he simply trusted God and was found Faithful to Him. Thus by relationship he was and is called a Friend of God.

That is a very rare commodity.

God is not so much as interested in Crowns or pleasing man as He is in those who believe, Loving and knowing Him.

God Bless you today, the way to Salvation is through the finished work of Jesus Christ. Which is pleasing to God, not man. It brings with it a relationship built up upon Trusting God, knowing Him, and Love.

Peace,

Dave

[dakota190]

now i am not the most learned here, nor do i claim to be. i am not a trained seminarian, or a theologian, but i think i know the beginning of confusion when i see it. what i am seeing is the sowing the seeds of confusion. there is only one way to salvation, it is very clear, there are no other paths, and one can list all of the scriptures in support of "another gospel", it does not change the truth. THE ONLY WAY TO SALVATION, IS THROUGH THE CHRIST, JESUS!!!, THE ONLY SON OF THE LIVING GOD. there is no need to expound on the subject it has already been settled, by the Lord. thank you!!!!!! the Lord has already taught it.

yes, the faith of abraham was counted to his salvation, in the old testament. they were also under the law then, we are under grace, since the resurrection of Jesus. our faith in Jesus is the beginning of the road to acceptance of Christ as our lord and savior, then we come under the blood. but the way to salvation, is still only by one road.

in your initial intro preacher, you mentioned how others misused scriptures to arrive at the belief, there is only one way to salvation, it would seem, you have done just that, and the danger of using individual scriptures for proof texts, is those scriptures are going to be examined, yours have been and they have been found lacking. some are not only out of context, they are so far off base, they either are or they border on being irrelevant to the subject you are trying to prove.

Edited May 16, 2006 by dakota190

[thepreacher]

Hi NewPilgrim,

It is true that faith without works is dead in itself and faith produces good works.

As to part of your last statement if I understand you correctly. You said:

[Guest NewPilgrim]

Preacher, in my previous post, what I was trying to convey and perhaps fell short of in my eloquence is that one can follow the laws and commands of God and still not enter the kingdom of heaven, if just one particular all-covering and essential facet of Gods will is not adhered to, that being to believe on Yeshua, all that he his, all that he claimed to be and his substitutionary death as the sacrifice for the covering of our sins. One can follow everything else to the letter, but if one does not believe in Jesus, as Paul and Silas had said, then it is for nothing as far as our own eternal salvation is concerned.

Yeshua said of John: "of man born of woman, there is none greater than John the baptist, but even the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he" - the distinction made is that the kingdom of heaven, here on earth consists of those who are saved by the blood of Yeshua and sealed with the permanent indwelling of his Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ said that he and his Father are one, but he also commands that we have to do God the Fathers will in order to be saved in many scriptures.

Preacher, you are erring dangerously close to "salvation by works" with such a statement and I for one would like you to clear up straight away if that is the point you are coming to and I would like you to produce these scriptures which you intend to use to make your point.

[thepreacher]

NewPilgrim,

I am not saying we must fulfill every command that God gives and never fault. I am saying that there are some laws, commandments and requirements that Jesus Christ said must be met for different purposes.

One of the commands is that we must believe in him, Jesus Christ. That is fulfilling, or us doing a command. Mark 1:15. It is also by us believing fulfilling a law

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Abraham was not under the Law, although it existed;

Ro

[Guest NewPilgrim]

After one believes in Jesus Christ he then has to do what Jesus said to do for salvation.

One example: Saul or Paul on the road to Damascus repented of his dead works. He understood what he was doing was not going to save him.

He believed that Jesus was the Christ obviously and could save him.

Paul asked what he must do.

Jesus told Paul what he must do.

Preacher, you are quickly losing my respect for your preaching, not least because you are making inferences with scripture taken out of context. Your inference here for example is that Saul was asking what he must do for sal;vation, where in fact he was merely asking Yeshua what he wanted him to do.

Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him (Ananias), Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

You may attribute works to God and I have no quarrel with that, but it s does not excuse your implication that the sacrifice of Yeshua is not sufficient to reconcile us with God. Works, keeping of the law, witness of Christ these are acts of obedience and love but are not the means of salvation. God has set the pattern and the only pattern sufficient for the covering of sins and reconciliation to God is sacrifice, if a man offers no sacrifice then his only means of righteousness before God is to keep every last one of Gods laws from birth until death. To lead a flawless life and there has been and only ever shall be one who is capable - Yeshua.

Preacher, you may be as eloquent as you wish, buyt as far as I can see, you are aiming to preach a salvation which demands more than the sacrifice of Christ, rendering his death and resurrection insufficient for the reconciliation of Man to God, which is heresey. I fear that you will lose much credibility with our bretheren at worthy if this is the case.

[thepreacher]

atthitjah,

We must as believers:

2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly DIVIDING the word of truth.

To help in understanding some main points.

RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE KINGDOM TERMS

In other words knowing there is the overall