Note to atheist.

[CellShade]

You are correct!, because it's human nature to be bad persons.

Also then you are a very bad person, since I know if there wasn't a threat of a ticket for speeding or for not stopping at the stop sign you would not respect the traffic signs,aswell this applies to other things; killing, stealing, and so on.

Yeah last day I slit a child's throat and waited for the police. When they came they asked me: "Are you a theist or an atheist?" Once thay learned I'm an atheist they let me go.

Oh give me a break, you know exactly what I ment ,but in case you are still too close minded, as I believe and know you are smarter then this I'll just say it again.

Humans do or try to do good things avoiding the consequences it brings, example: A person would break the speed limit in a high way, but because there is a chance that you get a ticket for speeding, most people won't do it, being and atheist or christian.

Also I never said atheist were monsters, I was just stating human nature, and why we need laws.

[Christian]

Wow, this conversation has gotten dark and ugly!!!

Here......let me turn on some "Light"

2Corinthians4:3-6

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that perish:

4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 Seeing it is God, that said, Light shall shine out of darkness, who shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Blessings,

-CC-

Edited June 3, 2006 by Crusader for Christ

[apothanein kerdos]

Oh give me a break, you know exactly what I ment ,but in case you are still too close minded, as I believe and know you are smarter then this I'll just say it again.

Humans do or try to do good things avoiding the consequences it brings, example: A person would break the speed limit in a high way, but because there is a chance that you get a ticket for speeding, most people won't do it, being and atheist or christian.

Also I never said atheist were monsters, I was just stating human nature, and why we need laws.

Yes, that's why a 1 day old child that dies definitely goes to hell. It's in human nature to go to hell unless a Christian saves them. The mantally ill too, they are all doomed.

edit: is this the point when you cop out and tell me to stop mocking you?

There is a way to have an intellectual discussion without devolving into mocking us or being a smart aleck. Many athiests have accomplished this in life, I am curious as to why you cannot. This is also not a cop out, it is merely a call for you to be somewhat civil in your reply.

Secondly, you show yourself to lack proper knowledge in what Christianity is. For one, a one day old child does not go to hell. Though it is true all people are born sinners and are guilty of this sin, God does not hold accountable those who cannot possibly understand their predicament. This would include children and even the mentally handicapped.

As for your rhetoric. You refer to fundamentalists as close minded people, yet you call them "fundies." You also speak with disdain, say that no matter what they have to use circular logic, and that they can never possibly be right. This shows a bias, not someone who has actually explore it. It shows a biggoted view towards a group of people, in this case fundamentalists. In essense, what you accuse fundamentalists of being (close minded and stupid), you actually reflect. By being rude, inconsiderate, and unwilling to listen to any argumentation against your point, you have become exactly what you accuse Christians of being. This is not true for all athiests, many have legitimate claims against Christianity and can put forth excellent argumentation. You, however, have come forth in a biggoted manner and shown that you have no interest in learning or discussing...you are here to ruffle feathers whilst ignoring any plea for civil discussion.

I ask you, if you are here to actually enter into a discussion on these issues, then please do so and drop your rhetoric. If, however, you have no desire for such a thing, then simply realize that you have acknowledge to be a bigot against Christians and in doing so dejustified your stance as one based upon intellectual grounds.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Exercise civilty or this thread will end right here.

Peace,

Dave

[undone]

Lepaca,

I'm not sure it's fair for you to make or imply the sweeping generalizations that all Christians would impose nazi-like rules for society if they were completely in control. I realize there are those who might be prone to do such things. But you don't know me.

I am sorry you've had some bad experiences in life and I can only hope you will come to realize we're not all the same.

[Christian]

I have discussed on intellectual grounds and I'm still doing that. You guys blew the chance you had of not looking like fools in the other thread and several times here. E.g. the first post in this very thread has nothing to do with intellect and a lot to do with bigotry (turn or burn, huh? wow).

I am sorry if the original post here might have offended you Lepaca, but we would be "liars", and in contempt if we did not speak the Truth. I only pray you can soften your stance and try to look at things our way, as you are asking us to do for you.

2 Peter 3:7-10

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Blessings,

Christ's servant

-CC-

[apothanein kerdos]

I'm just having a little fun. I do debate civily but I found out it's a losing tactic here. If you wonder why I'm being an *edit*, you can go to the other thread I made to see what kind of treatment an atheist who speaks civilly gets here. There's a nice roundup of the offenses I had to endure while I was trying to discuss (until I flipped out, of course).

I think it is highly unfair to blanket an entire group of people because you have had a run in with one or two. For instance, I gave you an open invitation to an intellectual discussion but you have rejected it. If you truly cared about your position then I would think you would be open for such a discussion. Likewise, just because you feel you have been treated bad, does that give you the proper grounds to insult everyone and act in an obtuse manner? I would venture to say that when we respond in anger because we have been mistreated, we are letting other people control us. Is that something you want? As much as you bash us "fundies," you sure are letting us control how you act and ultimately are only proving other people's points about you. I don't think that is something you want.

In that case why don't you kill your son who is just born in order to make sure he goes to heaven? Why do missionaries endanger the souls of those who never heard of Christ by telling them?

Because Christianity is more than, "There is a Heaven, you want to go there." Christianity is about experiencing God's love first hand, developing culture, growing and enjoying life, life that God has given to us. Why would I want to rob any child of that? It is the same reason a missionary goes into a dark place. These people have developed the reasoning skills for what is right and wrong, and many live moral lives once they have. However, they do not get to enjoy the fullness of the Gospel until someone relates it to them. This is why missionaries go.

They earned that and more. Presenting a dark age mentality as if they are superior to everyone else? Don't make me laugh. Those people are dangerous. They support the war in Iraq, they would discriminate against homosexuals, they would take away women's rights on their body and deny them equality with their husband in marriage. They would discriminate against those who dress in strange ways, impose their religion on other people, restrict the music and books they don't approve of. From posts here and in other forums I have come to realize they are the modern day nazi. At the beginning I couldn't believe it, then as I learned about their background I understood. There's no way you can be brought up that way without becoming nazi-like. Superiority of their morals over anyone else's, superiority of their religion, superiority of their worldview, it's exactly the same except it isn't about races.

Again, you are using rhetoric and bad experiences rather than logical analysis. I would ask that you drop the ad hominem (emotional appeal) and look at this factually. For one, it is not a dark age mentality. In fact, the dark ages supressed Christian thought. It wasn't until the reformation that true Biblical teachings began to finally break through once more. Even then it was incomplete and tainted by fallen men.

Now, you are correct, we believe homosexuality is a sin and a woman's "right over her own body" is a farse. It is murder, though a human life exists within her, it does not give her the right to terminate that life. However, we do not deny equality within marriage, merely understand how authority works. If you read the Bible you would see that man is to serve his wife, to be self-sacrificing to what is best for his family, specifically his wife. Yes, the Bible acknowledges man as the head in the relationship, but this often means he is the chief servant in the family. I do not see how this violates any rights of women.

As for our morals...any philosophy is going to teach it is superior. In fact, by you saying we are wrong in asserting such a thing, you are essentially saying that your worldview is better than our worldview...which by your definition would make you Nazi-like.

Basically, you are not goign to convince me you have actually looked into the issue. YOu can say I offer lip service to other athiests, but I think many of them will tell you, I do not devalue them in debate and when they have a good point, I acknowledge it. The fact is, you are basing all of this off of a biased point of view, one that is full of hatred. You are no better than what you accuse us of, and I find that depressing really. There is hope, I merely wish you would calm down enough to discuss it.

[Copper Scroll]

I'm just having a little fun. I do debate civily but I found out it's a losing tactic here. If you wonder why I'm being an ass, you can go to the other thread I made to see what kind of treatment an atheist who speaks civilly gets here.

Honestly--that is laughable. You ignore questions you don't want to answer and write off arguments you don't want to confront as failures. In this short time, you've shown yourself to be one of the most close-minded nonbelievers I've seen here (though I haven't really seen that many. I usually don't bother arguing with atheists.)

No, when I came here I was perfectly willing to listen.

You can't be serious.

[Copper Scroll]

Hint for copper: when you write

you've shown yourself to be one of the most close-minded

Followed by:

I usually don't bother arguing with atheists.)

You're going to be laughed at.

The reason why I don't usually bother arguing with atheists here is because I've done so much of it elsewhere... on Internet Infidels to be exact. I have a username there--"Copper Scroll". Go check.

And not taking the time out to argue ever is not an indication of close-mindedness. If anything, it's an indication of open-mindedness. I read atheists' opinions here all the time. I don't find much of what they write convincing, but I also don't think that arguing with them is all that productive. Look at this and the other thread. Bound to go nowhere.

Anyway sorry for writing off those wonderful, perfectly sound arguments like the Flood.

You come here seeking to frame, guide, and lead the discussion. When the discussion begins to slip from your control, you say things like "don't bother with that argument"--if you say anything at all. I have a post from two pages ago (post 47) and a post from the other thread (51) that are still waiting for responses.

[CellShade]

Hint for copper: when you write

you've shown yourself to be one of the most close-minded

Followed by:

I usually don't bother arguing with atheists.)

You're going to be laughed at.

Anyway sorry for writing off those wonderful, perfectly sound arguments like the Flood.

Hmm do not know how your mind works, but as far as I understand,

I usually don't bother aguirng with atheists, is not being close minded, I understood it in the way he ment it, if you can't understand what he ment, I'll just won't waste my time explaining it to you until you come here and have a open mind.

So whenever you feel like having a good debate, I am ready, meanwhile as you are close minded right now, I won't bother.

If Mods mind to Lock topic as topic is now off topic.