What Profit?

[Rober H]

Ephesians 2

1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at wok in those who are disobedient.

3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,

5 made us alive in Christ even when we were dead in transgressions-it is by grace you have been saved.

6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, though faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-

9 not by works, so that no on can boast.

10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do..

Without God good works are nothing....will not get us anywhere except maybe a good samaritan award from saving the kitty in the tree.....

That is how I see it too.

[thechild]

i find that an inescapable conclusion. at least long enough to go through the process. following jesus and picking up your cross is definitely commitment to the point of death. i would venture to say not one christian would deny that if they were presented with the so-called mark of the beast, they would choose death over that. yet there are already marks and numbers that if you dont have them, you cant buy or sell. people think that if beheading is not the alternative that it is not the mark of the beast. these same people cant understand how esau could trade his birthright for a bowel of pottage. how ironic.

matthew 10

34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

here is the way to have eternal life

matthew 25

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

and here

mark 10

23And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

26And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?

27And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

28Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.

29And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

30But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

and here

luke 10

25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

but what you really want to know is that you have eternal life. and rather than repent, you would find fault with me. all i have done is repeated what our lord has said.

john 12

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

and i have also offered up on this site the revealing of the mystery of christ and how eternal life actually comes about. but the ones who run this board took it away and told me never to post it here again and they called the servant of god who wrote it a blasphemer. i was not surprised:

john 10

24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30I and my Father are one.

31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

[Rober H]

thechild,

Your understanding of Matthew 25 is skewed.

This is not the resurrection. Christ is on the earth judging the nations and those who survived the Great Tribulation. These are flesh and blood survivors of the tribulation and are separated based on their treatment of Christ's brethren the Jews.

The church has already been taken to their judgement in the clouds to meet the Lord. The church is judged but it is not for salvation but for rewards.

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

The time this earthly judgement of living beings (not translated nor resurrected from the grave) takes place is just before the millennium.

No resurrection is mentioned. No books are opened.

Those who survive and enter the millennium are judged on how they treated Christ's brethren the Jews. All those who treated Christs brethren with love will enter the millennial kingdom with flesh and blood bodies and they were or will be true believers at this time.

If the basis of salvation for us at this present time is giving a Jew a drink of water then the bible contradicts itself which it does not.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Jesus said...

John 6:27-29 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

If a person does good works and doesn't believe on Jesus and His gospel He or She will perish no matter how much good they have done.

Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Remember,

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

A person who does not believe the gospel of grace cannot be saved no matter how many good works they do.

Edited June 4, 2006 by Rober H

[Rober H]

thechild, states

i think there is no compromise. you either give up your soul or you give up all the world.

You mean sell all you have and follow Christ as the Lord told the rich young ruler?

How would one do that today?

Thanks,

Robert

[thechild]

robert h

quote

"A person who does not believe the gospel of grace cannot be saved no matter how many good works they do."

i am certainly glad that statement cannot be found in the scriptures. it is not only patently not true, but just the opposite is true. in this world, good works are a sign of faith. not the ones for show, of course, because they have their reward built in. not the ones you do for friends and relatives because any good pagan can do that.

the message of jesus was not about a belief system. in fact, he never told the jews they were wrong, never advocated abolishing the law of moses, never once condemed anyone for their religion or culture. in fact, he said to do what the pharisees and teachers of the law said to do, but not to do as they do. he observed the sabbath on the sabbath and the feasts as well.

and he said many other things to do, all designed to bring about true change. that is the essence of repentence - change. and he left us with so very few of his words. how very precious they are. and as he left he said, "if you love me, obey my commandments." when he started his ministry, the lord spoke from on high saying this is my beloved son, listen to him.

i dont know what kind of spell people are under to get them to profess the lord jesus christ and completely ignore him at the same time. perhaps you can be the one to clear that up for me. but if so, i hope it is in your own words. i have heard all the others since a child.

[thechild]

thechild, states

i think there is no compromise. you either give up your soul or you give up all the world.

You mean sell all you have and follow Christ as the Lord told the rich young ruler?

How would one do that today?

Thanks,

Robert

well, robert, i really dont know how a person would go about doing that. i havent held a paying job for the the past 6 years and i dont own anything. i am blessed, if you can call it that, with a wife who pays for what is here and that is her choice because i guess she doesnt want to live a meager existence. i would just as soon live off the land, but that is not available any more. i did that for a while in alaska, but that went the way of many better things i have known in my 47 years.

i no longer have the stomach for the work i once did and i have no desire to do work that i know will harm myself, my health, or other people and guess what? there isnt much out there. i am a natural healer and wont go near a doctor. in fact, i could be perfectly fine as homeless. i need no provisions that the lord does not provide. i dont need a shelter - it is much healthier not to be in one. i eat my food raw so i dont need fire. i drink distilled water so that is a burden, but i dont have to drink distilled water and i wont drink anything else but water, as a rule. i can make my own medicine, know the use of herbs, dont like alcohol or soap or perfume. i love to be in the sun and i like to be active. maybe i should just take a walk like forrest gump and see if anyone tags along?

these times are not conducive to the spiritual life. to abandon it all seems like insanity to most people. it makes perfect sense to me.

btw, jesus is the truth and he is the same yesterday, today, and forever. everything he said has been in application since he spoke it. i have had too many people tell me too many lies about what the bible says. god is able to speak to me through his word just fine and it is quite clear to me what it says, and what it does not say. in fact, i know it backwards and forwards.

Edited June 5, 2006 by thechild

[Rober H]

robert h

quote

"A person who does not believe the gospel of grace cannot be saved no matter how many good works they do."

i am certainly glad that statement cannot be found in the scriptures. it is not only patently not true, but just the opposite is true. in this world, good works are a sign of faith. not the ones for show, of course, because they have their reward built in. not the ones you do for friends and relatives because any good pagan can do that.

the message of jesus was not about a belief system. in fact, he never told the jews they were wrong, never advocated abolishing the law of moses, never once condemed anyone for their religion or culture. in fact, he said to do what the pharisees and teachers of the law said to do, but not to do as they do. he observed the sabbath on the sabbath and the feasts as well.

and he said many other things to do, all designed to bring about true change. that is the essence of repentence - change. and he left us with so very few of his words. how very precious they are. and as he left he said, "if you love me, obey my commandments." when he started his ministry, the lord spoke from on high saying this is my beloved son, listen to him.

i dont know what kind of spell people are under to get them to profess the lord jesus christ and completely ignore him at the same time. perhaps you can be the one to clear that up for me. but if so, i hope it is in your own words. i have heard all the others since a child.

You didn't answer my question.

Do you believe a person is supposed to give up all they have and follow Christ like He asked the rich young ruler?

How does a person do that today?

Edited June 5, 2006 by Rober H

[Rober H]

thechild, states

i think there is no compromise. you either give up your soul or you give up all the world.

You mean sell all you have and follow Christ as the Lord told the rich young ruler?

How would one do that today?

Thanks,

Robert

well, robert, i really dont know how a person would go about doing that. i havent held a paying job for the the past 6 years and i dont own anything. i am blessed, if you can call it that, with a wife who pays for what is here and that is her choice because i guess she doesnt want to live a meager existence. i would just as soon live off the land, but that is not available any more. i did that for a while in alaska, but that went the way of many better things i have known in my 47 years.

i no longer have the stomach for the work i once did and i have no desire to do work that i know will harm myself, my health, or other people and guess what? there isnt much out there. i am a natural healer and wont go near a doctor. in fact, i could be perfectly fine as homeless. i need no provisions that the lord does not provide. i dont need a shelter - it is much healthier not to be in one. i eat my food raw so i dont need fire. i drink distilled water so that is a burden, but i dont have to drink distilled water and i wont drink anything else but water. i can make my own medicine, know the use of herbs, dont like alcohol or soap or perfume. i love to be in the sun and i like to be active. maybe i should just take a walk like forrest gump and see if anyone tags along?

these times are not conducive to the spiritual life. to abandon it all seems like insanity to most people. it makes perfect sense to me.

btw, jesus is the truth and he is the same yesterday, today, and forever. everything he said has been in application since he spoke it. i have had too many people tell me too many lies about what the bible says. god is able to speak to me through his word just fine and it is quite clear to me what it says, and what it does not say. in fact, i know it backwards and forwards.

You make absolutely no sense to me at all. I really am not enjoying this discussion. Leaching off your wife isn't giving up anything.

[thechild]

no, robert, i dont suppose you are enjoying this. you sit there forgiven of god knows what and heaven bound and pronounce judgements on me. that has to gnaw on a person somewhere.

the answer to your question is easy. you lay down your net and walk away from your boat and follow him. its just that easy.

[Rober H]

Some people who are unsaved live very interesting lives.

Many movie and rock stars give millions to charities, fly to Africa, adopt unwanted children, build homes for orphans etc.

I certainly won't put them down for that. In fact good for them!

The world loves these people. Their faces are on magazine covers and their good deeds and charitable contributions are shown on televsion, talked about on radio and printed in the newspapers.

Jesus gave us an interesting question to ponder.

Mark 8:36-37 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Mark 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

So, individuals who do good are helping others and are gaining praise and recognition from the world but unless they believe the gospel of Christ all their good deeds will inevitably profit them nothing and they will lose their souls.

I have old friends and aquaintances that have quit smoking and drinking and turned their lives around and are happily married. Yet, they don't know Jesus Christ nor his gospel.

I have tried to share the salvation message with them and they will say things like"I am glad you are happy and that your belief system works for you but I am fine the way I am. If their is a God He isn't going to judge me because I am basically a good person."

I can see that compared to some other people they might be considered "good" but we have to measure ourselves by God's standards and according to scripture we all fall short.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I believe the bible clearly teaches that we will not be saved by good works but we are saved for them(Eph.2:8-10). I find many who claim that our "good works" will somehow come into play where salvation is concerned.

What do you think?

Being saved for good works is the opposite of being saved by good works.

A man could be a good husband and provider for his family. He could give his time and resources to help the poor but unless that man believes on Jesus and the gospel the bible says His works are as "filthy rags".

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

One aspect of "gaining the whole world" is having the praise of men but not believing the gospel of God.

Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.