Is there a difference?

[st. Worm]

And now under this New Covenant, instead of the Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath given to the nation of Israel in the Book of Exodus, we celebrate the majestic Lord's Day in celebration of Jesus' glorious, physical, literal & everlastingly-alive resurrection from the dead which, just happens to be, the gargantuan difference between New Testament Christianity and all the self-concocted religions of humankind. THEY lived, THEY died! HE lives, HE died....and HE conquered death, hell & the grave! Hallelujah, what a Savior!! AMEN & AMEN!

P.S. Actually, there is no such entity anywhere in the Holy Bible as a "Seventh-day Adventist," the very term itself being a complete non-starter! Ellen Gould Harmon White's religion only commenced in the 19th-century.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

While I agree 7th Day Adventism is false teaching, the fact that the term itself isn't mentioned specifically in the Bible is an irrelevent and unacceptable argument that often gets used here for other issues. I am encouraged though that some here who constantly speak out against the traditions of the church willingly accept the fact that Sunday worship is based on tradition and not a biblical mandate. Traditions have their place and should not always be scorned.

sw

[RND]

Me in BOLD

And now under this New Covenant, instead of the Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath given to the nation of Israel in the Book of Exodus,

I suppose you know that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath? Mark 2:27 I would also bet that you are fully aware that the Law was for everyone in Israel to observe, not just Israelites? To suggest otherwise is either willfully displaying ignorance, or spreading falsities about what the Bible actually says.

Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

we celebrate the majestic Lord's Day in celebration of Jesus' glorious, physical, literal & everlastingly-alive resurrection from the dead which, just happens to be, the gargantuan difference between New Testament Christianity and all the self-concocted religions of humankind. THEY lived, THEY died! HE lives, HE died....and HE conquered death, hell & the grave! Hallelujah, what a Savior!! AMEN & AMEN!

I agree. But isn't this what Baptisim is for? To symbolize are participation in the newness of a Life in Jesus Christ?

P.S. Actually, there is no such entity anywhere in the Holy Bible as a "Seventh-day Adventist," the very term itself being a complete non-starter! Ellen Gould Harmon White's religion only commenced in the 19th-century.

Are Calvinist mentioned in the Bible....anywhere? How 'bout Catholics? Lutherans? Methodists? Pentecostals? New Agers?

Are you beginning to realize how ridiculous your above statement is?

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[RND]

And now under this New Covenant, instead of the Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath given to the nation of Israel in the Book of Exodus, we celebrate the majestic Lord's Day in celebration of Jesus' glorious, physical, literal & everlastingly-alive resurrection from the dead which, just happens to be, the gargantuan difference between New Testament Christianity and all the self-concocted religions of humankind. THEY lived, THEY died! HE lives, HE died....and HE conquered death, hell & the grave! Hallelujah, what a Savior!! AMEN & AMEN!

P.S. Actually, there is no such entity anywhere in the Holy Bible as a "Seventh-day Adventist," the very term itself being a complete non-starter! Ellen Gould Harmon White's religion only commenced in the 19th-century.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

While I agree 7th Day Adventism is false teaching, the fact that the term itself isn't mentioned specifically in the Bible is an irrelevent and unacceptable argument that often gets used here for other issues. I am encouraged though that some here who constantly speak out against the traditions of the church willingly accept the fact that Sunday worship is based on tradition and not a biblical mandate. Traditions have their place and should not always be scorned.

sw

Thank you for your honesty.

[RND]

Was it a crime to commit murder prior to the Cruxifiction? How about afterward?

What about stealing? Or adultery? Or bearing false witness? How about idol worship?

RND,

Was it a crime to hate your brother in your heart prior to the cross? How about lusting in your heart? Did anyone get stoned for that? Gossip?

Deut. says the law was for those present that day. Were you there?

If you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law.

It may surprise you to recognize that christians don't think Sunday is the Sabbath, we believe Jesus is our Sabbath rest, the day pointed to Him. See Hebrews4

Can you point to one verse in scripture that says, "You no longer have to keep the 10 Commandments?"

Do you favor having 10 Commandment monuments displayed in schools and courthouse? If so, why? Shouldn't they really be called 9 Commandment monuments?

[wordsower]

RND,

Are you really going to read the verses? Didn't you say in another thread that you are quite comfortable with SDA teachings?

Here they are:

Galatians 3:10For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Eph 2:14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,

15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

Col. 2:14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross

2 Cor 3:7But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

8how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

9For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

10For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it.

11For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

[RND]

RND,

Are you really going to read the verses? Didn't you say in another thread that you are quite comfortable with SDA teachings?

Here they are:

Galatians 3:10For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Eph 2:14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,

15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

Col. 2:14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross

2 Cor 3:7But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

8how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

9For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

10For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it.

11For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

I indeed have read these verses, many times in fact. I agree with them. All of them in fact. The Mosaic law, which everyone of these verse refers has indeed been done away with. The mirror that shows us our sin, the 10 Commandments, is in full force and effect.

Paul never once referred to the 10 Commandments as being abolished, but he did refer to the Law of Moses being abolished. See what Luke says in about it Acts 15. What did Paul chastise Peter about?

[wordsower]

So, RND, are you cool with a bacon double cheeseburger?

2 Cor 3:7But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

This passage speaks specifically of the 10 commandments, engraved in stone when Moses got them.

Is porn ok, since it's not in the big 10?

[RND]

So, RND, are you cool with a bacon double cheeseburger?

2 Cor 3:7But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

This passage speaks specifically of the 10 commandments, engraved in stone when Moses got them.

Is porn ok, since it's not in the big 10?

Leave off the bacon and the beef and I'm cool. Make mine a turkey burger with all the trimmings.

Your highlighting 2 Corinthians 3:7 for what reason? I agree with it. Death comes to all sinners. How do we know we have sinned? By the letters God wrote on stone. The law does not save, it reveals. I agree with that.

Is porn ok, since it's not in the big 10?

Check your heart. After all, that's where God wrote his law. But then again, Jesus did say that the 'spirit' of the law was that even if you 'looked' at a woman with lust in your heart you were committing adultery. So I would have to conclude that porno is definately not o.k.

[wordsower]

RND,

My point being that the law misses a lot. The OT says that a day was coming when the law would be written on their hearts.

Look,

One man esteems a day, another everyday alike, let each be fully convinced in his own mind, the Lord will make him able to stand.

Hebrews 4 clearly states to me that the Sabbath is revealed to those that believe, not to those who it was first preached, because of their unbelief. (mind you, those to whom it was first preached--the Jew--still observe the day) God says they have no rest because, like you, they don't get it. The Sabbath is the rest intended in Christ from the beginning. He did not end the 7th day creation, all the others say "and the evening and the sun were the 1st, 2nd..........6th day, there was no intended end to the 7th, it was complete without end. Adam and Eve communed with God everyday, they had perfection, access to the Father, without shame, UNTIL sin.

From that point until the cross man had to go through a priest, no access to the throne because of sin, God told them to remember the Sabbath to point them to a time when they could again have complete access to the Father, without man intervening. Jesus became our High Priest, we are blameless through His blood, we can pray directly to God.

The Sabbath is Today for those who believe Hebrews 4.

[RND]

One man esteems a day, another everyday alike, let each be fully convinced in his own mind, the Lord will make him able to stand.

Indeed, but is the Sabbath mentioned anywhere in Romans 14? Maybe this chapter is talking about foods offered to idols and fasting days and not the Sabbath day.

The Sabbath is Today for those who believe Hebrews 4.

The 4th commandment tells us to rest and worship on the seventh day. This is clear.

Funny, I read Hebrews 4 much differently. I believe it clearly states that the 7th day Sabbath is still in effect and certain newcomers did not enter in because of unbelief.

Here's an example:

Hebrews 4:9

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

In this case rest is strong's #4520 which is derrived from #4521

The greek word is: sabbatismos

And it means:

1) a keeping sabbath

2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians

I agree wholeheatedly with both definitions. The Sabbath is our time to 'remember' what God has done in creation, both in this age and the one to come!