Sin?

[EricH]

Grace to you,

I adjure you all to debate in a fashion becoming the New Man Christ Jesus.

Your witness may be seen at any given time in up to 119 Nations. Let's make a Difference.

Peace,

Dave

Good advise, lest people who are discussing sin, become sinful in their discussions

[EricH]

How many times did Jesus address sin as "addiction"? Addiction is a man-made word.

You do not know what I have been set free from, do you? I can speak of what I have witnessed myself. That is how I DO KNOW HIM and HIS POWER!

If the passages I posted were a lie, then say so! If not, then abide in Him and His Power and Authority and BELIEVE in what He can do in us!

Matthew 18:6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

7 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!

In His Love,

Suzanne

Jesus did not address many things. He did not address manic depressive disorder or schizophrenia, or cancer. That is because those words would have had no meaning to his listeners. Arguments from silence are dangerous. From what I have read in this thread I see 2 dangers that are both a-biblical

1. To deny that believers still posses a sin nature

2. To over estimate the power that sin nature should have in the believer's life

Both are not biblical concepts.

[nebula]

If you're going to take up the cross and follow him, you better be prepared to carry it all the way."

Actually that is exactly what the Scriptures say here:

Luke 14

27 And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. 28 "Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? 29 For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, 30 saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.' 31 "Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32 If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33 In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple. 34 "Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? 35 It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

I was thinking of the same passage.

Also, this one:

Luke 9:62 - But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

Another way of looking at this can be found in this poem I found:

What do I know of Calvary love?

by Amy Carmichael

if

[wykael]

Based on your arguements above, we're all doomed. That is, of course, unless you can convince me that you have not sinned since becoming a Christian. That you haven't told someone they looked good, when they really didn't (lying). That you mind never wandered to thoughts of another person besides your mate - even for a second. That you never reacted sharply and failed to show God's love when someone needed that most of all. That you never questioned why something happened in your life and wondered if God was really there and looking out for you. That you never said something negative about another person or spread gossip regarding the affairs of others. That sin has been completely absent in your life. Take it a step farther. Can you really claim that you have never willfully sinned since coming to Christ? Even on a seemingly small matter? If this is the case, then your argument that you have to take up your cross and be ready to carry it for all eternity or else...well it dooms us all.

Jesus didn't say "follow me, but only if you're ready to be perfect." Jesus appealed to the weak and to those in some of the worst sin, and offered to save them. Are you honestly telling me that He didn't think these people would backslide? He provided grace for this just because we are human and not divine. Yes, we need to ask forgiveness. But His grace is granted because we believe, and choose to follow Him. Not because we "sin no more." His grace covers our sin. We need to ask for it, but we're not forgiven for the sin we committed 15 minutes ago because we ask for it. We're forgiven because we love Him.

[nebula]

You're missing the point.

Salvation isn't about "fire insurance." If all you care about is grace to cover your sin and don't care about what fruit your life produces after you have been saved, you are missing out on the fullness of what the Lord has intended for you.

[EricH]

You're missing the point.

Salvation isn't about "fire insurance." If all you care about is grace to cover your sin and don't care about what fruit your life produces after you have been saved, you are missing out on the fullness of what the Lord has intended for you.

Again, it is all about balance. We need to take all scriptures that speak to the issue into account and not go to seed in any direction (whether it be teaching sinless perfection, or an unfruitful life)

[wykael]

You're missing the point.

Salvation isn't about "fire insurance." If all you care about is grace to cover your sin and don't care about what fruit your life produces after you have been saved, you are missing out on the fullness of what the Lord has intended for you.

Salvation has many "benefits" in this life and the next, besides the "insurance" it provides. But this thread is entitled "Sin."

[nebula]

You're missing the point.

Salvation isn't about "fire insurance." If all you care about is grace to cover your sin and don't care about what fruit your life produces after you have been saved, you are missing out on the fullness of what the Lord has intended for you.

Again, it is all about balance. We need to take all scriptures that speak to the issue into account and not go to seed in any direction (whether it be teaching sinless perfection, or an unfruitful life)

And I completely agree!

[nebula]

You're missing the point.

Salvation isn't about "fire insurance." If all you care about is grace to cover your sin and don't care about what fruit your life produces after you have been saved, you are missing out on the fullness of what the Lord has intended for you.

Salvation has many "benefits" in this life and the next, besides the "insurance" it provides. But this thread is entitled "Sin."

And its consequences.

Galatians 5

13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,

20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,

21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Do you disagree that the Lord desires us to produce the fruit of the Spirit?

**

The OP was concerned about sinning when the rapture occured - what would happen?

My original argument was, and still is, that one's energy would be used most effectively working on overcoming said sin rather than if it would keep one from being raptured.

[eric]

Everybody is getting up tight here because the OP is going round in circles.

Here is the OP.

Let's say you are a Born Again Christian. But you struggle with pornography {or whatever} and say you are watching a porn DVD when all of a sudden the Trumpet Blasts and the Lord is returning to capture His Bride for the Rapture. Would you still go in the rapture or would you be left behind because you were in sin at that time?

1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Be Blessed

in Him;

If you were a mature christian and read the bible correctly, and you were caught in am immoral situation on the day of the rapture/resurrection, then I would consider that you would be like the five foolish virgins and be thrown into the outer darkness.

Every christian knows all the criteria for salvation. Everybody knows that Jesus is the bridge that you have to cross in order to be reconcilled back to the Father, and answering an altar call and repenting and receiving Christ as your Saviour, is not your guaratee of redemption. It's only the first step. If you want to be taken seriously with Jesus, then you better be prepared to Take Him seriously. Matt.24 :13 Jesus said he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved, and that makes no exceptions to those who are in the wrong bed on His arrival for His saints.

Go figure.