Predestination

[LadyRaven]

(Pslam 37:28) states God is a lover of justice. Do you believe that it would've been just of God to create a world that is unjust had He known that it would be in the state that it's in know from the beginning of time. I don't believe that God would willingly create pain in the world. Take a look at (Gen 5:26) this states that God regreted ever creating humans. Pretty powerful words. Now do you believe that when God was creating Adam that He knew he was going to regret ever creating Adam had He known which path that Adam would choose? No God would've stopped because He wouldn't want the pain of regret of creating us. God would've looked into the future and see that we are unworthy and never bothered because it is not just to intoruce evil. Of which God did not introduce but Satan instead. So why ever intoduce Satan?

Thing is...we come from a human and fallen perspective. If God is just and then God does something then it must be just for him to do it. If God is incapable of sin and then God does something, then it must not be sinful for Him to do it.

IF, as scripture says, God has planned and has known everything from before the beginning of time then obviously Gen 5:26 must be taken in context of those facts. It obviously doesn't mean the same thing as I do when I say I regret getting married to the person I had married. I had no way of knowing the future, the Bible says that God did.

[Guest bloodnwater]

This topic's come up a bit in other threads, but I really wanted to focus on it and see if I can get the answers I'm really looking for.

I believe God knows everything, including who will accept the offer of salvation and who won't. So....why did God create people He knew were going to end up in hell?

My friend, our Great God did not create the people of whom will spend an eternity in hell. Every single one of us were already going to hell due to our sin. God rather chose to save some from the place of which they were destined. Such doctrine is known as the doctrine of election.

Edited August 1, 2006 by bloodnwater

[billie]

This topic's come up a bit in other threads, but I really wanted to focus on it and see if I can get the answers I'm really looking for.

I believe God knows everything, including who will accept the offer of salvation and who won't. So....why did God create people He knew were going to end up in hell?

My friend, our Great God did not create the people of whom will spend an eternity in hell. Every single one of us were already going to hell due to our sin. God rather chose to save some from the place of which they were destined. Such doctrine is known as the doctrine of election.

So why did He choose to save some but not others?

[eric]

They have free will. Until they die, they could have accepted Christ. Jesus died for everyone, but not everyone accepts it. He created the man that will be the antichrist as well. so.... He created Judas too..... they are needed in the world to fulfill his plan as well.

God did not create man with a freewill so he could please himself what he did. God did create man with a brain which gave him the ability to make choices. God created man to do His will, to worship Him and give Glory to Him. God did not create the anti christ or judas. the fallen man procreated them. We are all begotten of Adam, because he made the wrong choice.

Now you are going to say it was his free will that made him make the wrong choice and I will say that if man had a free will there would have been no point giving him a brain to de able to make choices. God could have merely made man and said *go for it* you are free to do whatever you like.......but He didn't. He said you can eat of any tree except the one in the middle of the garden. He said eat of that and you will surely die. Adam was told what he could eat and what he couldn't eat, so where's the free will in that.

just my own thoughts.

[billie]

You know, I know that God is fair, He's just, He's loving, He's all-knowing. Sometimes I wonder about these things, but I never let my wondering turn into doubting His charecter. It's just interesting to talk about these things and get everyone's point of view. I just didn't want anyone to think I was espousing any certain doctrine by starting the post, just curious...

[SoliDeoGloria4708]

You know, I know that God is fair, He's just, He's loving, He's all-knowing. Sometimes I wonder about these things, but I never let my wondering turn into doubting His charecter. It's just interesting to talk about these things and get everyone's point of view. I just didn't want anyone to think I was espousing any certain doctrine by starting the post, just curious...

Just look to the Word. I was raised with a very wishy-washy point of view concerning God (like some other posters), but through His Word I was able to get a fuller view of the character of God, not just the "Jesus loves you, amen" part. Their's more to it than that. My old view point was very man-centered. However, the Bible is not man-centered, it's God-centered. And God is God-centered. And it's encouraging to see someone start to dig into some of the more solid food. When your not raised being taught these deeper thruths of election and the sovereignty of God, it's sometimes hard to Get your head wrapped around it. This is a book that I read that really helped me flesh out my thoughts concerning this topic. It is now available for free online right HERE. I hope it helps.

[kittyjo]

Here are some past threads on this that are very interesting...

Free Will and Predestination, Study

and

Predestination, what do you think about it.

[billie]

Thanks, Gloria! Thanks, Shellie!

[jgredline]

You Know Billy

This question you possed has been at the heart of many debates in Bible college and seminary for the past 500 years and longer really.

This gets to the heart of armenism and calvinism. I believe both theological views have problems. I can debate both sides. In the end I am a 3 point calvinist.

I will look through some of my notes and see I if can't come up with an answer that sort of makes sense.

Thanks Javier

[billie]

Thanks, Javier!