Left over Communion Wine/Juice

[Floatingaxe]

What are you talking about when you say Real Presence, Leonard? The presence of the Holy Spirit is here where we gather together! When we participate in Communion together He is there. When we participate in baptisms He is there. When we pray together He is right there!

When we worship Him He is right there!

Do you wax mystical about this idea?

[irishcowboy]

There is no mention in the New Testament of consecration of any inanimate object, cup, tong, etc. Nowhere in the New Testament is anyone ever instructed to burn incense,w ith the exception of Zechariah, but that was actually before the New Testament was given.

True. And the same goes for pews, baptismal tanks, pulpits, organs, pianos, colored windows, hymnbooks, offering plates, bulletins, steeples, foyers, or any number of similar things that are standard fare in evangelical churches. So what?

On the other hand, in the only soup-to-nuts worship system that was written down by God's prophet (Moses) at God's direction, there are plenty of things that are consecrated. Check out a concordance on the word "consecrate" in the Books of Moses.

Whatever else one may draw from this fact, surely one is permitted to think that God likes things that are consecrated to His worship (since he commanded such to be done).

I don't recognize the book of Common prayer as an inspired work.

I didn't offer it as an inspired work. I did offer it as an example of how bread/wine are ordinarily consecrated.

The entire church, that is the "mystical body of Christ", as opposed to any denomination, IS the priesthood.

It's interesting that in 1 Peter 2, Peter draws whole phrases from similar statements made in the Old Testament concerning Israel. Consider, for example, Exodus 19:5-6 --

[God speaking to Israel] " ... you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.

This comes from the same God who will shortly send Moses down from Mt. Sinai with the Aaronic priesthood, and the priestly tribe of Levi. So, God speaks to the entire nation as a kingdom of priests, while at the same time only one tribe serves the Lord in the tabernacle, and only one family within that tribe officiates as priests at God's altar. If God can speak this way, I don't know that Peter can't copy Him!

Thank God I don't have to go confess my sins to some earthly priest.

Just curious, what do you do in compliance with James 5:16? That stuff James says we're supposed to confess to one another is hamartias, the same things Christ died for in 1 Cor. 15:3. Are you, then, wholly exempt from James' command?

Spook

But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and [your] nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

[Floatingaxe]

I mean no disrespect, but its just juice and bread.

It does not turn into the body and blood of Jesus literally, but it is also not just juice and bread. You have never experienced all there is to it if you think that is all it is.

To that other person who takes it home.... if it is just ordinary juice, why not pour it down the drain instead of the bother to take it home?

I don't like to waste food, and I had a family to feed! What does it matter to you?

[Floatingaxe]

If you read Paul, he said people who come to church and eat and drink communion like it is ordinary food are sick and dying because they don't recognize what it is. Some people had prematurely DIED and were SICK. Therefore, it is not something to take lightly as some of you definately are.

The reference was referring to people who were coming with physical hunger. Also the warning went out to those who would partake unworthily, with unclean hearts.

[Floatingaxe]

I mean no disrespect, but its just juice and bread.

It does not turn into the body and blood of Jesus literally, but it is also not just juice and bread. You have never experienced all there is to it if you think that is all it is.

To that other person who takes it home.... if it is just ordinary juice, why not pour it down the drain instead of the bother to take it home?

I don't like to waste food, and I had a family to feed! What does it matter to you?

It matters to me because it is something the Lord Jesus Christ himself instituted. To take it home is wrong and use it like regular food is wrong.

Says you!

[Guest Spook]

Hi, Mike,

You quoted James as follows:

And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed.

You note I've highlighted the word sins and faults. In English, they are different words, of course. but the underlying word in the Greek text is the same: hamartias. Since asking for clarification from WhySoBlind, I double checked and triple checked others reading of the Greek text at this place. All Greek texts I can find use the same word -- hamartias, which means "sins" -- in verse 15 and verse 16.

You are correct that the text doesn't mention a priest. That does not mean a priest is an inappropriate person to hear your confession. For a whole lot of reasons you can probably think of yourself, you would be unlikely to confess your sins to just any old person in the Body of Christ. Right? The same idea no doubt occurred to the early Christians.

But, since the early Christians were all Jews (including James) and James is probably the first epistle to be composed in the NT, his Jewish Christian readers would have thought immediately of confession to a priest. Why? Because that's how the Jews had been doing it for centuries and centuries and centuries. They would bring their tresspass and sin offerings to the Temple, and in connection with offering them, they would confess their sins to the Levitical priest.

Roman Catholics did not invent this. It's Jewish. It's early Christian. Today it is still practiced by the Orthodox along with the Romans, Anglicans, and conservative Lutherans. The ones who seem most insistent in NOT practicing what James says are those who think Roman Catholics own the practice as something peculiar to themselves. It is not peculiar to them. They're just doing what all Christians have done for centuries.

Spook

[pointer]

I mean no disrespect, but its just juice and bread.

It does not turn into the body and blood of Jesus literally, but it is also not just juice and bread. You have never experienced all there is to it if you think that is all it is.

I have yet to experience even one person who has been made spiritually better by drinking and eating. This is a ridiculous myth, driven by great fear of allowing Christ into one's life.

[Guest Spook]

I have yet to experience even one person who has been made spiritually better by drinking and eating. This is a ridiculous myth, driven by great fear of allowing Christ into one's life.

I think you're telling us a lot about yourself here, and nothing about others.

Included among those who spread this ridiculous myth would be our Lord. Take another look at the Bread of Life discourse in John 6, and then let us know if you're among those who turned away at His hard sayings.

Spook

Edited August 5, 2006 by Spook

[pointer]

I have yet to experience even one person who has been made spiritually better by drinking and eating. This is a ridiculous myth, driven by great fear of allowing Christ into one's life.

Included among those who spread this ridiculous myth would be our Lord. Take another look at the Bread of Life discourse in John 6

Yes, Jesus and the twelve were cannibalists after all.

[Guest Spook]

Yes, Jesus and the twelve were cannibalists after all.

QED