Dangerous Heresy

[Xan]

Yes, the Copelands teach that. You are wrong. We can tie the hands of God with many attitudes, and unyieldedness is a biggie..

Yes, but they are not talking about Yieldedness. They are saying that God needs our permission to step into the world, which is a direct assault on God's sovereignty. We may hinder God's work in our lives, but God does not need our permission to operate in this realm.

You are simply confusing issues.

If you don't permit God to enter into anything on your behalf, He won't. Truly, I think we are dealing with alarmists and they are crying, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

I don't agree with everything that people here say are Word of Faith beliefs, but I surely love to hear the Copelands and I love Joyce Meyer, and yeah, man--I watch Creflo Dollar almost every morning!---and these so-called quotes of Copeland I am free to discount or embrace, but the slander that is being thrown out in this thread is actually splashing back on y'all. You can't go around throwing mud at the brethren, and not be sullied yourself.

Interesting accusation. All I have seen from those of us who don't embrace WOF are quotes from WOF preachers and evangelists.

[Guest Honolulu-Dad]

Interesting topic. I, for one, had never even heard the term WOFer before coming to this site. And, although I agree that some people, preachers included, do claim that "faith" will move God, even if it means He has to forego His own will. However, I also think that a lot of people have jumped on the proverbial band-wagon, and misapply the term to anyone who dares suggest that someone have faith. Encouraging a brother or sister in Christ to stand on the promises of God, can get you called a WOFer by many, even here, in the Worthy Chat rooms. How sad, that a term meant to be directed towards a select group, is now being misused in many cases. Perhaps we should refrain from "coining" groups we disagree with and simply disagree.

In a very real sense, the Bible does teach us to speak Words of Faith. Every time we tell someone that Jesus loves them and died as an atonement for their sins, we are speaking Words of Faith. Every time I pray, I am speaking Words of Faith.

It takes faith to trust the Word of God. Speaking His Word is, in fact, speaking Words of Faith.

I do not agree with everything I hear some of the tv preacher say, but, I think many people are now being falsley accused simply because they have the faith they are suppose to have.

God bless you all,

H-Dad

[HAZARD]

WHAT IS FAITH?

If one wants to please God one must have faith: "But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God MUST BELIEVE that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him" (Heb. 11:6).

This is one sure way to please God. If God can be made happy and well pleased in such a simple way, why should not everyone one who loves Him put forth the utmost effort to have faith in Him? Not one of us would be pleased if our friends would constantly make us a liar every time we opened our mouths to say something. Not one of us would feel like doing anything for those who did this. The same is true with God. We should not insult God by questioning and doubting every promise He makes. How can we expect to get answers to prayers as long as we continue in such an attitude?

Faith is simple. It is believing God without waver, without doubting, and without questioning what He says. It is taking God at His Word and believing that what He has promised He is able to perform it. It is believing not only that He is able, but that He will do it. It is the quality of counting those things that be not as though they were (Rom. 4:17). Faith is also the absolute conviction that what God has promised and what we have asked for according to His Word is already done. It is the substance of things hoped for and the first payment on things that we desire from God (Heb. 11:1-3).

How do we get faith.

The way to get faith is by Hearing the Word of God (Rom. 10:17).

The way to use faith is to take God at His Word and count Him faithful in granting what is asked in the name of Jesus. Ask and then believe that it is done. Thank God for it as if it were already done. Expect the complete answer whether you see it at once or not.

Forget symptoms, feelings, impossibilities,or anything to the contrary and it shall be done regardless of how impossible it may appear outwardly. Faith leaves all results and all answers with God as being God's part, and faith believes that it is done. Our part then is to co-operate with God through faith and not hinder its working by doubting and questioning the how and when of the answer.

If a Christian will truly exercise faith that he knows is necessary, there will be no question as to the answer. One can get healing, health, success in business or in any undertaking, prosperity, happiness or anything that one to be victorious in any phase of life (Matt. 17:20; 21:22; Mark 11:22-24; John 15:7, 16; Rom. 8:32; Heb. 11:6; James 1:5-8).

Faith is not only a natural ability or exercise of a created faculty of man, but it is a fruit of the Spirit and a gift from God (Gal. 5:22-23; 1 Cor. 12:4-11).

Dangerous Heresy?

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" (Acts 24:14).

Haz.

[Floatingaxe]

If you don't permit God to enter into anything on your behalf, He won't.

Once again, that is not issue being raised. We are not talking about God doing anything on your behalf.

Copeland and Price teach that God cannot operate in this world at all without our permission. God needs our permission to step into this world. You are either don't know what they teach, or you are purposely trying to deflect attention away from their teachings which strike upon God's sovereignty.

I think we are dealing with alarmists and they are crying, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

You are simply unwilling to face up to the heresies and lies that these false teachers spreading around.

I am free to discount or embrace, but the slander that isbeing thrown out in this thread is actually splashing back on y'all. You can't go around throwing mud at the brethren, and not be sullied yourself.

It's not slander if its true. The definition of slander is when you spread falsehoods in an attempt to defame. The fact is Copeland really does teach that God is not sovereign, that Jesus blood is not sufficient, and that God needs mankinds permission to step one foot into the natural realm.

They may be fine people in other contexts, in fact, I respect the fact that Hinn, Copeland, and others have been faithful to their spouses, so they are not all bad, but their teachings are a theological trainwreck.

I don't believe that.

[Floatingaxe]

Yes, the Copelands teach that. You are wrong. We can tie the hands of God with many attitudes, and unyieldedness is a biggie..

Yes, but they are not talking about Yieldedness. They are saying that God needs our permission to step into the world, which is a direct assault on God's sovereignty. We may hinder God's work in our lives, but God does not need our permission to operate in this realm.

You are simply confusing issues.

If you don't permit God to enter into anything on your behalf, He won't. Truly, I think we are dealing with alarmists and they are crying, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

I don't agree with everything that people here say are Word of Faith beliefs, but I surely love to hear the Copelands and I love Joyce Meyer, and yeah, man--I watch Creflo Dollar almost every morning!---and these so-called quotes of Copeland I am free to discount or embrace, but the slander that is being thrown out in this thread is actually splashing back on y'all. You can't go around throwing mud at the brethren, and not be sullied yourself.

Interesting accusation. All I have seen from those of us who don't embrace WOF are quotes from WOF preachers and evangelists.

Well, of course. All out of context, I'm sure... that's what poor comprehension or incomplete knowledge does.

[Floatingaxe]

Interesting topic. I, for one, had never even heard the term WOFer before coming to this site. And, although I agree that some people, preachers included, do claim that "faith" will move God, even if it means He has to forego His own will. However, I also think that a lot of people have jumped on the proverbial band-wagon, and misapply the term to anyone who dares suggest that someone have faith. Encouraging a brother or sister in Christ to stand on the promises of God, can get you called a WOFer by many, even here, in the Worthy Chat rooms. How sad, that a term meant to be directed towards a select group, is now being misused in many cases. Perhaps we should refrain from "coining" groups we disagree with and simply disagree.

In a very real sense, the Bible does teach us to speak Words of Faith. Every time we tell someone that Jesus loves them and died as an atonement for their sins, we are speaking Words of Faith. Every time I pray, I am speaking Words of Faith.

It takes faith to trust the Word of God. Speaking His Word is, in fact, speaking Words of Faith.

I do not agree with everything I hear some of the tv preacher say, but, I think many people are now being falsley accused simply because they have the faith they are suppose to have.

God bless you all,

H-Dad

[truthbringer]

qypc

I must say this was a mouth full. When I was first born again I listened to all these ministers and stopped, oh about two or three years into my walk. I was going to a very well know church here in Ohio and the Lord led me out of that church cause the teachings started to change. I just recently noticed when those changes started taking place and it was after the mentor of this pastor had passed on to the Lord. There was a big shift in his teaching, but like I said until I was removed from it I really didn't notice and even then it took about four years for God to really expose the things I was being taught was wrong. I thank God for His faithfulness and for His knowing my heart!!! I really was unaware and seeing how unaware I was I know all my sisters and brothers that are still under these teachings are also unaware, this is our dangerous these teachings are and I pray that the Lord open all their eyes in the way that only God can do!! Amen?

It Depends on what you call wrong. A lot of christians disagree withthe Bible.

[truthbringer]

hr.jr..............................and everything you just said is NOT in the Bible. It is based on a so called new revelation that can only be obtained by super spiritual knowledge that even the early church Fathers did not have.

Where does it say in the Word that Jesus suffered in hell?

Where does it say in the Word that he died spiritually?

Where does it say in the word that he became Born Again?

One thing you have failed to see is that "the Word became flesh and dwelt amoung us" The Word is God and it is not possible to become one with sin and the devil. To say so is blasphemy. These are the dreamers of Job. God said "where were you when I laid the foundations of the Earth?"

God is God and he is in control and we are his children and not "little gods"

In his love,

Brian

I take it that you are joking, Or Very ignorant of the Bible.

[truthbringer]

Yes, some proclaimed visions by Charismatics have happened, some prophecies have come true, some dreams have come true, some have become prosperous, some have been healed, etc.

But after many years in this movement I've heard so many "visions" that I'm almost dizzy. When certain things happened that didn't line up with a person's vision (usually about a future in ministry or prosperous occupation), they would have to change it. And it would have to change again each time claiming that they were "hearing from God."

Most people are still in the same job, same income, nobody's given them a house or car, most still have physical ailments, and most are in still in debt yet giving "over-and-above" into a land or building project.

If you ever mention something that's not positive you get that look and some response about how it's not true, you have to say it's not true despite the circumstances, etc. Sometimes you can't even carry on a conversation because you might say something that's not positive.

i work with a lady that sounds just like this,If I say I have a headache,she says.don't claim that" I told her well if I don't then how can God heal me if I can't say I have a headache..If everything is postive how can mircles happen?

[1] God has already healed you.

[2] instead of saying, "I have an headache", Say, By His stripes I am healed.

[3] Your Miracle happens when you agree with God's word and say the same as God.

[4] Just because someone has a greater revelation then you does't mean they are wrong.

[truthbringer]

I actually wanted to start a thread on this, but something told me not to. ( Already have one..)

I agree that this is a false teaching. I am so uneasy when I hear and read certain teachers preaching this. My skin literally feels like it crawls and I had no idea it was called WOF movement until recently. I just knew what they taught made me very uncomfortable when I heard it. I actually have to turn off the TV or whatever quickly when they come on now.

(Not familiar with all these labels and denom titles, please forgive me )

I thought it was just me , but now I am seeing that more Christians are actually talking about this.

It was God that told you not to start a thread,