Matthew 4

[The Journey]

Yeshua has to learn to choose the good!

Annie,

So there was a point in time that Jesus did not know what was good? This would imply that He could choose to do wrong?

Was Jesus fully God as a baby?

- Steve

[Matthitjah]

Dearest sister Anne,

I think again the problem here is that you use tangled explanations to explain the obvious.

To all concerned (I pray I'm wrong) . I perceive that what is being stated here in long drawn out overemphasis is that . If you are in Yeshua and He in you? You must learn to be Yeshua!

You must learn from His example and the power of His very Spirit residing within you that you are to rule over your sin . That you must relearn thru the rebirth how to be good.

I believe that this is being explained in second person terms speaking Spiritually.

While it is very cut and dry. It is self explanatory and does not need the overemphasis on the drawn out explanation.

Please be careful to not draw inferences that are not there.

I believe Anne is saying you need to learn to be good. I see no need to call you Yeshua though.

Bless you,

Dave

[Fewarechosen7F]

Dearest sister Anne,

I think again the problem here is that you use tangled explanations to explain the obvious.

To all concerned (I pray I'm wrong) . I perceive that what is being stated here in long drawn out overemphasis is that . If you are in Yeshua and He in you? You must learn to be Yeshua!

You must learn from His example and the power of His very Spirit residing within you that you are to rule over your sin . That you must relearn thru the rebirth how to be good.

I believe that this is being explained in second person terms speaking Spiritually.

While it is very cut and dry. It is self explanatory and does not need the overemphasis on the drawn out explanation.

Please be careful to not draw inferences that are not there.

I believe Anne is saying you need to learn to be good. I see no need to call you Yeshua though.

Bless you,

Dave

For me, it was using the meanings of the words in the verses that allowed me to hear past natural discernment, untangling the interpretations of natural men, so that I could hear the spiritual message of the Lord.

I do not perceive it as overemphasis. There are those who are not as studued as the rest, who might read my posts. How can a man be in Yeshua and He in the man, if the mind of Christ does not come into the man? We must all learn to be like Yeshua! That is what his baptism is.

His house is a household of priests unto God and his Father. (Rev. something) We either agree with Yeshua or we do not. We are for him, or against him.

Yes, you are to rule over your own sin, eradicating it.

Yeshua told his disciples to repent and be baptized. But he told Nicodemus he must be born again, because Nicodemus was entrenched in the dctrines of the Herodians. (I'll find that one for you, if you don't find it first.)

Some need the drawn out explanations, skip them if you do not.

Yeshua is the head of the household, Jesus is the household that is called by his name.

I am using this the same way we (ppl) know each other, (Jim Hunter or Joe Moss, etc.)

(Something like calling you Dave Jesus) See what I mean?

[Matthitjah]

I understand completely sister of Grace,

My thoughts were to those who may misinterpret what you are posting.

1Pe

[Fewarechosen7F]

Dave, you said,

He was speaking plainly to every man and not just those entrenched in said doctrines.

I have checked several versions of the Bible and it is plain He speaks to everyman.

Everyman must be born again.

Today it is plain that the informtion is for every man, and today it is compiled knowledge. But while those events were taking place, the words Yeshua spoke at each event were for the individuals involved. On several occasions, Yeshua told some who were reluctant to become disciples that they must repent and be baptized if they wanted to be saved. Those men had never been "endoctrinated" by the priests, in the priests schools. They needed to be born into the spirit for the first time.

But on one occasion, he told Nicodemus, a priest of the temple, that he must be born again. Nicodemus was a trained priest, who didn't want the other priests to know that he was talking to Yeshua at all. (He came by night) The priests of the temple were "eating at Jezabels table" with Herodeous, and bringing her doctrine into the temple. (And it takes knowledge from all four gospels to understad this.) Nicodemus needed to be BORN AGAIN into the Spirit.

Because the adversary has sowed TARES into the kingdom on earth that we call the church, nearly everyone in it has need to be BORN AGAIN into the Spirit, just so that they might be certain they they are not TARES.

You said,

Secondly the Bible was written and translated in plain English so as not only the learned but the common man could understand.

Yes, Sir, it is, but even so, it must be comprehended by the reader. And I understand that I am not the only person on this earth who needed to have the verses "plowed up" in order to understand at my fullest capacty. The Lord has been twelve years in teaching me to do thing. If this is the ministry that the Lord has given to me, then who am I to deny his sheep the gift that he has given to me?

You also said,

Parables were spoken so those in the Spirit could plainly understand , but those who thought they were learned could not recieve them. This you too know.

The Lord has not sent me to the secular world. They can not even hear the false doctrines. They surely would not hear a Spiritual message. Those in the Spirit will hear these posts that I have been doing. And them who think themselves learned will fulfill prophesy. They will not receive me, and might even cast me out and persecute me in various ways.

You said,

Thirdly as the scripture aptly and quite plainly announces above. G-d does not give the Spirit in measure to Yeshua (Jesus)! Therefore when you are reborn into Him. All is possible even interpreting the plainly written Scriptures.

I thought our job is to make sure they are all reborn

You

We must all ask, seek ,and pray, most fervrently!

I totally agree!

You,

I see what you are trying to say! Yet it is already plainly said so that those on milk, or meat might understand! G-ds arm is not short and He will provide the right nourishment at the right time.

How do you know that I am not some of that nourishent? I could be, and I might not, only the Lord knows. I just know that if I had been the only person who was saved by his obedience to God, he would have still done it. I can offer him nothing less.

You,

I sought only clarification for the Lords Glory. That is my job here. When you say Yeshua must learn to be good. It sounds to some in your drawn out explanation that you are saying Christ had to learn to be good. G-d forbid!

We can not disregard the prophesies that he would learn just because they have been ignored by the theologians. Either the whole bible is true, or it is false. But I will never be convinced that some of it is false, while knowing that the rest is true.

You

Simply try to be more clear with His Glory! He is so very Precious. His Glory is His own. He deserves it!

I,m open for suggestions. For a Spiritual "plowing" I don't know how to get any plainer. And since the Lord God of heaven has given this to me this way, he knows whether or not I am giving him the glory.

By the way, why do you write -- G-d?

[Matthitjah]

Again dearest sister I hear what you are saying,

Because the adversary has sowed TARES into the kingdom on earth that we call the church, nearly everyone in it has need to be BORN AGAIN into the Spirit, just so that they might be certain they they are not TARES.

The enemy has sown sin into everyman of flesh. Thru Adam. When Jesus spoke of being born again. He meant Spiritually. You have said nearly everyone needs to be born again. All need to be born again whether they be church folk or just plain lost. Yes there are many church folk who think they are saved. Yet are as dead as their false doctrine. The kingdom is at hand . It is you and I abiding in Christ. His Will be done thru us. One day He will establish His perfect Will. Until then Love the Lord thy G-d with all thy heart, strength, and soul! Also Love your neighbor as yourself!

Yes, Sir, it is, but even so, it must be comprehended by the reader. And I understand that I am not the only person on this earth who needed to have the verses "plowed up" in order to understand at my fullest capacty. The Lord has been twelve years in teaching me to do thing. If this is the ministry that the Lord has given to me, then who am I to deny his sheep the gift that he has given to me?

Amen sister! Who taught you? The Lord! His arm is not short then?

The Lord has not sent me to the secular world. They can not even hear the false doctrines. They surely would not hear a Spiritual message. Those in the Spirit will hear these posts that I have been doing. And them who think themselves learned will fulfill prophesy. They will not receive me, and might even cast me out and persecute me in various ways.

I hear the message and I too believe the time is right. It is the right time for the Church to hear. If they will not cling to Jesus then so be it. They will stand for themselves. Will not Jesus Himself birth this forth? The shaking even begins . Those who know their Lord will run from this false Church! They will overcome!

Just remember that we have guests here who may be secular but seeking. Some things you say to the young in Christ and to the secular may be misleading. By way of turning the Word you bend it out of shape to the secular ear. A slightly skewed version of Jesus is presented. When His perfect image is available thru the written Word!

You have used this scripture to say Jesus had to learn to be good. .

Isa

Edited October 22, 2003 by Dr. Luke

[Ovedya]

Few, you said something above that caught my attention:

For me, it was using the meanings of the words in the verses that allowed me to hear past natural discernment, untangling the interpretations of natural men, so that I could hear the spiritual message of the Lord.

I understand that you are seeking some deeper meaning to the Word, to try to untangle the interpretations of natural man. But you are not relying on the Bible itself to do this, you are relying upon the word of a man, a natural man. Strong's Concordance is the authoritative source that man of these "natural men" use for their interpretations.

Furthermore, you are relying way too much on Strong's to derive deeper meaning and understanding for you. I don't believe that this was ever the intention of the book in the first place. Strong's is intended to enhance Bible reading, and deepen a believer's academic understanding of the language and its ussage. Over-reliance of any man's work to interpret the Bible for you can lead you into serious error, as has been pointed out above. Let me give you an example of this, and how there is a current heresy concerning John 1:1:

John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Here are the Strong's numbers (with links):

beginning

Word

God

Now, here's the insertion of the definitions into the text:

"In the beginning [at the point of origin] was the Word [the spoken word, a decree or a thought out plan], and the Word was with God [a god or goddess], and the Word was God."

There are at least three heresies that come from using the definitions as I wrote them above. The Jehovah's witnesses interpret the last section of this verse as "and the word was a god. They use this as one of their foundational heresies that Jesus was not the eternal God, but that He was "a god." The Mormons also believe that Jesus is not God but that He is "a God." They use the same definition to show that the Greek Theos can refer to gods, godesses, and even angels. Finally, the Church of Christ in the Philippines (Iglesia Ni Cristo) deny the divinity of Christ. They further deny the Trinity. They use the definition for Word as meaning "plan." Their interpretation of this verse is that Jesus Christ did not exist at all in the beginning, but that He existed as a mere thought in God's mind. They believe that "In the beginning was the plan..."

So you see how over-reliance upon these definitions can lead to serious doctrinal error. I don't believe that this is your intention here at all. I think that you simply want to apply the word line by line to your life. Sister, there is nothing wrong with that at all. But you may be doing yourself more harm than good in the process. In the process of leaning too much on man's work, instead of the Bible, you may be leading yourself into serious error. And, in fact, it already seems that you are.

[Fewarechosen7F]

Few, you said something above that caught my attention:

For me, it was using the meanings of the words in the verses that allowed me to hear past natural discernment, untangling the interpretations of natural men, so that I could hear the spiritual message of the Lord.

I understand that you are seeking some deeper meaning to the Word, to try to untangle the interpretations of natural man. But you are not relying on the Bible itself to do this, you are relying upon the word of a man, a natural man. Strong's Concordance is the authoritative source that man of these "natural men" use for their interpretations.

Furthermore, you are relying way too much on Strong's to derive deeper meaning and understanding for you. I don't believe that this was ever the intention of the book in the first place. Strong's is intended to enhance Bible reading, and deepen a believer's academic understanding of the language and its ussage. Over-reliance of any man's work to interpret the Bible for you can lead you into serious error, as has been pointed out above. Let me give you an example of this, and how there is a current heresy concerning John 1:1:

John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Here are the Strong's numbers (with links):

beginning

Word

God

Now, here's the insertion of the definitions into the text:

"In the beginning [at the point of origin] was the Word [the spoken word, a decree or a thought out plan], and the Word was with God [a god or goddess], and the Word was God."

There are at least three heresies that come from using the definitions as I wrote them above. The Jehovah's witnesses interpret the last section of this verse as "and the word was a god. They use this as one of their foundational heresies that Jesus was not the eternal God, but that He was "a god." The Mormons also believe that Jesus is not God but that He is "a God." They use the same definition to show that the Greek Theos can refer to gods, godesses, and even angels. Finally, the Church of Christ in the Philippines (Iglesia Ni Cristo) deny the divinity of Christ. They further deny the Trinity. They use the definition for Word as meaning "plan." Their interpretation of this verse is that Jesus Christ did not exist at all in the beginning, but that He existed as a mere thought in God's mind. They believe that "In the beginning was the plan..."

So you see how over-reliance upon these definitions can lead to serious doctrinal error. I don't believe that this is your intention here at all. I think that you simply want to apply the word line by line to your life. Sister, there is nothing wrong with that at all. But you may be doing yourself more harm than good in the process. In the process of leaning too much on man's work, instead of the Bible, you may be leading yourself into serious error. And, in fact, it already seems that you are.

Actually, I'm not seeking deeper meaning in the scriptures. And natural men have misinterpreted many verses, and have expeced me and you to just simply believe their interpretations without checking out what they said behind them.

I must disagree that Strong was a natural man. Any man who has spent enough time with the scriptures to write a 1546 page book that is printed smaller than newspaper print is no longer natural, but spiritual, born again. To do so, he had to rely on the bible to find the words he defined. And yes, natural men use the Strong's, whom was given his authority by the Lord God.

You said,

Strong's is intended to enhance Bible reading, and deepen a believer's academic understanding of the language and its ussage.

Strong's DOES enhance Bible reading, and enhanced Bible reading deepens a believer's faith and faithulness, if he is serious about his walk with the Lord.

Academia on the other hand is like the whale's belly, trapping the Holy Spirit inside the man who tries to "climb up" some other way than his baptism in the actual name of Yeshua. It causes man to SAY and not DO the word of God.

And I may never understand another langage. That's why God had the scriptures translated into mine.

I have not used the Strong's as an aid to translate the Bible for me. Maybe it would help if I tell you how it came about. That way maybe the rest of you will not be tempted to put your words in my mouth.

In 1990 the Lord called me out separate, though I did not understand that at the time. By June of 1991, I had read the Bible through four times, and had begun again. As I was driving the truck with my husband, I had plenty of time to read when he was under the steering wheel.

In July of 1991 we bought the Alexander Scourby KJV on cassettes. And I very swiftly discovered that it can be heard every 52 waking hours. We listened to the whole bible 25 and 1/2 times that year. And I've been spending 14 to 16 hours per day with the Lord in that way ever since, for going on 13 years now. That is the ONLY bible training that I have ever had, just me, the scriptures, and the Holy Spirit. That is what being baptized in his name really is. And unless organized religion wakes up and repents and becomes baptized, there is no hope for them.

The things that I have been posting are true, and do not change the verses. It only draws a paralel. As for someone changing the scriptures, do you know why the book of Jasher was not included in the translations we have today? I don't either, but it should have been. It is the book that Joshua and David studied from, (Joshua 10:13 and 1 Sam2:18) You might be surprised what the KJV left out. That sort of thing is why Yeshua warned us that if we are not more righteous then the scribes, we will not see the kingdom of heaven.

I've said all of that so that all of you might understand this. I am using the meanings in the Strong's to help to convey to others what the Holy Spirit has already taught me.

Seeing that the whole world believes that we are living in the last days, we don't have time to debate whether we should climb up academia, becoming baptized in the name of whoever founded the schools, or be baptized in Yesha's name straight from the scriptures.