Is all disobedience an act of will?

[antz]

Shiloh, you are very wrong on the belief that "sin is only deadly to non Christians"! In Heb 6:4-6 it mentioned that...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

The above passage pertaining to CHRISTIANS right??? They once saved from sin! right????

Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Then if they (CHRISTIANS WHO ONCE SAVED) fall away; they will not inherit the Kingdom of heaven therefore they will not be SAVED FROM HELL!

Wow, what a coincidence, another newbie supporting Antz/Truthcaster!

WOW... another accusation... are you still not convinced that i am not truthcaster???

Edited August 21, 2006 by antz

[antz]

Dubaimarina...

It means those who have turned their backs on Jesus--they will lose their reward. They can no longer be called Christians, now, can they?

Hi,

you havn't answer my question in post# 105

[Smalcald]

All sin of course is death, and leads to death. Those who are of a carnal mind are in death, they cannot please God.

But Christ destroyed the power of sin for those who have faith in Christ. B nature we are sinful, left to our own we would all veer toward death. When we see good in us, it is ONLY from God, all the evil in us is ours to own, including sins we don't recognize.

Do we really love our neighbor as ourselves? I sin from the moment I get up every morning until I go to bed, as I know I don't love others as I should, I know that I veer toward myself without true love for others as strong as the love I have for myself and my family. When I do show some spark of love, that is Christ alone and I praise Him for that.

The idea that sin and possible punishment for individual sins, is some sort of club that will make people mind Jesus is not who Christ was, it is also a very negative and unfruitful way of following Christ. Faith will send us in the right direction, even when we still sin we are covered by the Blood of Christ if we are truly sorry for being sinful and really desire in our hearts to love and please Christ. We do indeed need to teach people and those in our congregations what Christ wants us to do in our lives, what it means to serve Him, how to live for Christ, I think this does need to be taught, particularly in today's world where good is bad and bad is good, this is the role of the Church and the Christian family.

[antz]

All sin of course is death, and leads to death. Those who are of a carnal mind are in death, they cannot please God.

John would not agree on you on this... read...

I John 5:17Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, yet there are sins that do not lead to death.

That is the problem if we believe in our own interpretation and not allowing the Bible to define His own words.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, you are very wrong on the belief that "sin is only deadly to non Christians"! In Heb 6:4-6 it mentioned that...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

The above passage pertaining to CHRISTIANS right??? They once saved from sin! right????

Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Then if they (CHRISTIANS WHO ONCE SAVED) fall away; they will not inherit the Kingdom of heaven therefore they will not be SAVED FROM HELL!

No I am not wrong. Hebrews is book written to Jewish saints, and it applies to the tribulation. Hebrew is a tribulation book. Hebrews 6 applies only to Jews in the tribulation who are tempted to fall away. If we were to apply this to the Church age, we run into a problem since according to the passage, if a person falls away, they cannnot be "resaved," as it were. Even Christians today who believe that salvation can be lost, also believe that one can return to the Lord and have their salvation restored.

So this passage cannot, on that basis be referring to losing salvation within this dispensation. Hebrews 6 is referring to a permenant loss of salvation and the ONLY time we find in Scripture where this is possible for a believer is during the tribulation when a person receives the Mark.

Willful sins are not deadly because Jesus has already born the punishment of death for them. All of God's judgment against sin was leveled at Jesus.

Jesus has already borne everything it takes to send a person to Hell, and He did it so that we would not have to. According to Galatians 3, we have been redeemed from the curse of the law. The curse of the law was spiritual death, and separation from God. Jesus bore that curse away from us on the cross.

Romans six now tells us that sin no longer has dominion for us. Romans eight says that we have been set free from the law of sin and death. As Christians, we are set from free from the deadliness of sin. It no longer has any power over us, because we are under grace and are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. We are washed, we are sanctified by his grace, His Word and by the Holy Spirit. We are New Creations who have passed from death into life. We have been identified with Him in His death and risen with Christ to walk in the newness of life. Sin's deadliness is a thing of the past for the Christian. We start from the place of victory over sin and victory over death, hell and the grave. We start from the place you are trying to end up.

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

(2 Corinthians 5:1)

Like Paul we already know that we have eternal life. We already know to some extent was is awaiting us in heaven. Compare this certainty with other religions, especially those of Paul's day. A major difference between Christianity and other religions is our certainty. We don't have to guess at what God may or may not be thinking, nor do we have to go day to day, not knowing where we stand with Him. We are assured each and everyday by His unchanging Word that we are His beloved, the sheep of His pasture, and that His ever watchful eye is upon us each day. We have a "know-so" salvation. The Bible tells us in John 5:24 and 1John 5:11-13 that we can know we are saved today. We don't have to wait until the great day of judgement to find out if we made it or not. Eph. 1:14 tells us that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise who is the earnest (down payment) of our inheritance. The Holy Spirit is our Guarantee. The Spirit of God living on the inside of us is an ever living witness that we are children of God.

[antz]

Shiloh, you are very wrong on the belief that "sin is only deadly to non Christians"! In Heb 6:4-6 it mentioned that...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

The above passage pertaining to CHRISTIANS right??? They once saved from sin! right????

Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Then if they (CHRISTIANS WHO ONCE SAVED) fall away; they will not inherit the Kingdom of heaven therefore they will not be SAVED FROM HELL!

Willful sins are not deadly because Jesus has already born the punishment of death for them. All of God's judgment against sin was leveled at Jesus.

Then you don't really believe in the Bible. It is clearly written that

Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

Jesus has already borne everything it takes to send a person to Hell, and He did it so that we would not have to. According to Galatians 3, we have been redeemed from the curse of the law. The curse of the law was spiritual death, and separation from God. Jesus bore that curse away from us on the cross.

Heb 10:26 is saying AFTER... after we have received... and take note... Paul is included there because Paul is the writer.. he said... after WE have received...

Romans six now tells us that sin no longer has dominion for us. Romans eight says that we have been set free from the law of sin and death. As Christians, we are set from free from the deadliness of sin. It no longer has any power over us, because we are under grace and are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. We are washed, we are sanctified by his grace, His Word and by the Holy Spirit. We are New Creations who have passed from death into life. We have been identified with Him in His death and risen with Christ to walk in the newness of life. Sin's deadliness is a thing of the past for the Christian. We start from the place of victory over sin and victory over death, hell and the grave. We start from the place you are trying to end up.

Yes we have been set free because Jesus died for us on the cross. But if you come back again under the power of sin WILLFULLY after you have been saved... it is like you yourself is crucifying Jesus once again... read...

Hebrews 6:6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

[Floatingaxe]

antz--

That scripture you so doggedly refer to is clearly speaking about those who have a spirit of antichrist. Not normal Christians who sin, and have the conviction of it and repent. He is speaking about those who willfully trun from their Saviour to follow after idols, whatever they may be. They have stepped out from under Grace.

[cjrose]

Shiloh, you are very wrong on the belief that "sin is only deadly to non Christians"! In Heb 6:4-6 it mentioned that...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

The above passage pertaining to CHRISTIANS right??? They once saved from sin! right????

Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Then if they (CHRISTIANS WHO ONCE SAVED) fall away; they will not inherit the Kingdom of heaven therefore they will not be SAVED FROM HELL!

Wow, what a coincidence, another newbie supporting Antz/Truthcaster!

I knew there was a reason I didn't get involved in this thread! Thank You Jesus!!

[antz]

antz--

That scripture you so doggedly refer to is clearly speaking about those who have a spirit of antichrist. Not normal Christians who sin, and have the conviction of it and repent. He is speaking about those who willfully trun from their Saviour to follow after idols, whatever they may be. They have stepped out from under Grace.

that is "your interpretation..." Paul would not agree on that...

as far as i know it is Paul who write that and he is including himself to that declration... look again... and read carefully... read, don't interpret...

Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

Edited August 22, 2006 by antz

[Floatingaxe]

antz--

That scripture you so doggedly refer to is clearly speaking about those who have a spirit of antichrist. Not normal Christians who sin, and have the conviction of it and repent. He is speaking about those who willfully trun from their Saviour to follow after idols, whatever they may be. They have stepped out from under Grace.

that is "your interpretation..." Paul would not agree on that...

as far as i know it is Paul who write that and he is including himself to that declration... look again... and read carefully... read, don't interpret...

Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

Paul certainly did mean that!

26Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received a full knowledge of the truth, there is no other sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27There will be nothing to look forward to but the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28Anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29Think how much more terrible the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God and have treated the blood of the covenant as if it were common and unholy. Such people have insulted and enraged the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to his people.

30For we know the one who said,

"I will take vengeance.

I will repay those who deserve it."

He also said,

"The Lord will judge his own people."[e]

31It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

*Once again, we are speaking of people who have committed that unforgiveable sin: blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which in essence is the spirit of antichrist.