Is all disobedience an act of will?

[Guest shiloh357]

Actually, I disagree with most people about this passage, so please don't take this personally Floatingaxe. Permit me to explain:

"If we sin willfully after receiving the full knowledge of the truth" Does not mean "if we sin willfully after becoming a Christian." What this is referring to is a rejection of what we have received as truth.

It is written to Jews, not to Gentile Christians. That does not mean that there cannot be a wider application to the rest of us, but the audience are Jews, and this needs to be kept in the forefront. The author (I believe it is Paul) is writing to those who know the truth, but choose to reject it. He is not talking about Christians, but those who understand the truth, know it is the truth, but reject it anyway. "Receiving the truth" is not necessarily synonomous with conversion.

I have the shared the gospel with the people and they know I am right, they know the truth. They know they are going to hell, but they love their booze, and their partying, etc. too much to make a decision for Christ. THIS is the type of person being addressed in this passage. The author is telling Jews who know the truth that if they remain in old system and reject the gospel, there is no other sacrifice for them (remember that Paul already said that Christ was the final sin offering). So, without Christ there is nothing left for them accept God's wrath.

To me, this is talking about God's wrath on unbelievers, not Christians. These are people who through their conscious rejection of the Gospel have trampled the Son of God, treated his blood as unholy, despising it as unclean, and have insulted the Spirit of Grace (Holy Spirit). These three witnesses, Jesus, The blood and the Holy Spirit testify against them.

Until recently, I thought this referred to apostasy, but I have had to adjust that a bit.

[antz]

antz--

That scripture you so doggedly refer to is clearly speaking about those who have a spirit of antichrist. Not normal Christians who sin, and have the conviction of it and repent. He is speaking about those who willfully trun from their Saviour to follow after idols, whatever they may be. They have stepped out from under Grace.

Then why Paul will include himself to that???

If you are right in saying the the verse is about those who have a spirit of antichrist, why would Paul include himself saying...

Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,...

[Guest shiloh357]

antz--

That scripture you so doggedly refer to is clearly speaking about those who have a spirit of antichrist. Not normal Christians who sin, and have the conviction of it and repent. He is speaking about those who willfully trun from their Saviour to follow after idols, whatever they may be. They have stepped out from under Grace.

Then why Paul will include himself to that???

If you are right in saying the the verse is about those who have a spirit of antichrist, why would Paul include himself saying...

Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,...

Because it is used in an editorial sense. It is hard to explain to someone who does not understand how English works. The words "we" and "you" are sometimes used to make a point in a conversation and it is understood by the English reader that they are not the actual target of the speaker. Rather we understand that "you" or "we" is being used in a general sense, and not in a personal sense. "We" or "you" can mean "anyone," or "everyone."

Paul is talking about those who receive the truth but do not appropriate it. They accept/acknowledge the truth, but decide against it. Like I said, there are people who know the truth, but love sin too much to change, and receive Christ. That is the kind of person being referenced in this passage. It is not talking about a saved person walking away from the faith.

[antz]

antz--

That scripture you so doggedly refer to is clearly speaking about those who have a spirit of antichrist. Not normal Christians who sin, and have the conviction of it and repent. He is speaking about those who willfully trun from their Saviour to follow after idols, whatever they may be. They have stepped out from under Grace.

Then why Paul will include himself to that???

If you are right in saying the the verse is about those who have a spirit of antichrist, why would Paul include himself saying...

Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,...

Because it is used in an editorial sense. It is hard to explain to someone who does not understand how English works. The words "we" and "you" are sometimes used to make a point in a conversation and it is understood by the English reader that they are not the actual target of the speaker. Rather we understand that "you" or "we" is being used in a general sense, and not in a personal sense. "We" or "you" can mean "anyone," or "everyone."

Paul is talking about those who receive the truth but do not appropriate it. They accept/acknowledge the truth, but decide against it. Like I said, there are people who know the truth, but love sin too much to change, and receive Christ. That is the kind of person being referenced in this passage. It is not talking about a saved person walking away from the faith.

really????...

i admit i am having a hard time expressing my thougths but with the help of the scriptures it still shows that it is you who don't understand the verses i am posting...

let see if what you claim is true... let us read the context... take note, i won't interpret anything here, we just have to read... let us read...

Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

To whom he is talking??? He said Brethren... What did he say to the Brethren... let us continue the verses...

Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having a high priest over the house of God;22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

To whom is he talking??? to his brethren, those who have new living way, those who have full assurance of faith... those who have profession of faith...

and what did he said to this people he called brethren???... let us continue reading...

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

did you read that??? who does the word we being referred to???

He is referring to the brethren including himself...

I think that is prety clear... why can't you understand that???

[WayneB]

Antz, I think the discussion has run its course. You asked for someone to respond to your last post. Why? The discussion has gone circular. I will repost my earlier post, which you never responded to either and we'll leave it at that.

Do you agree that willful sins are deadly after we received the knowledge of the truth as what the Bible say???

I believe that a true born again believer seeks to please God, which means that they "live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires." [Romans 8:5b] We may be set free from sin [Romans 6:6,7,18] but as long as we remain in our corrupted flesh, we are not free from the struggles with sin.

Brother Paul, a mature & wise follower of the Way, wrote of his personal struggle with sin...

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do