Free will?

[lypse]

okay, now that I'm reading through the posts, I think a more direct question is in order. Free will, as I understand it, is freedom to choose and do what you wish, without any interference from God. Assuming a omniscient God exists, he knew before I was born that I would not believe in him, so why would he allow me to be created knowing that he was just going to send me to hell??

[billie]

Welcome back, Lypse!

[billie]

Lypse, I asked this exact same question a couple of months ago, and this was the best anyone, in my opinion, came up with. It didn't seem fair to me, but after reading this, now I understand. I sincerely hope this helps you.

Well i am back. I could not leave this post like that. It just did not seem right.

Ok, the doctrine of election raises serious problems in the human mind, so we must consider more fully what the Bible does (and does not) teach on this subject.

First, it teaches that God does choose men to salvation (2 Thess. 2:13). It addresses believers as those who are

[st. Worm]

Free will? Of course we have free will. If we didn't we would all be robots because God would make the decisions for us.

God wants us, of our own volition, to turn to Him .. He doesn't force us to do anything!

There is nothing in the Bible that indicates man, subsequent to the Fall, has a free will. Instead the Bible says we are dead in our sins, that our will is bound by sin and that our hearts are deceitful. Only the grace of God can free us from that bondage. To say salvation is based upon man's free will choice is to remove all glory from God and give it to man.

sw

[cjrose]

okay, now that I'm reading through the posts, I think a more direct question is in order. Free will, as I understand it, is freedom to choose and do what you wish, without any interference from God. Assuming a omniscient God exists, he knew before I was born that I would not believe in him, so why would he allow me to be created knowing that he was just going to send me to hell??

Yes, free will to do good and bad. We are all sinners. It's human nature. A thought could be a sin which is why we repent and ask for forgiveness. I have strayed away from Him of my own choice because I was one foot in the world. The more I walk in the world the further away I get from Him. But He never leaves me and always brings me home. There is no assuming here. God is ominpotent, the Holy Trinity, and believe it or not, you aren't dead yet and can still choose. He does know who will come to Him at some point in their lives. And with you asking questions so honestly, I can see your interest. Seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened. All you have to do is ask Him

[LadyGunivere]

i agree with you sis!!!!!!

[lypse]

Lypse, I asked this exact same question a couple of months ago, and this was the best anyone, in my opinion, came up with. It didn't seem fair to me, but after reading this, now I understand. I sincerely hope this helps you.

Well i am back. I could not leave this post like that. It just did not seem right.

Ok, the doctrine of election raises serious problems in the human mind, so we must consider more fully what the Bible does (and does not) teach on this subject.

First, it teaches that God does choose men to salvation (2 Thess. 2:13). It addresses believers as those who are

[billie]

Only people who reject the Gospel message and what Jesus has done for them will be held accountable. People who never get the oppurtunity to accept or reject can't be held accountable for something they don't know.

[Floatingaxe]

So, because God is God, I shouldn't question why He'd allow me to not believe?? If I'm understanding that right, I guess that's fair enough. But what about people from countries where they'll never know or hear about Jesus or your God for that matter??

God makes provision for that.

Romans 2 says...

15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

There is no excuse, for the Law of God is written on our hearts. He is a personal God, He makes it His business to make sure everyone has a chance. He is fair and just.

[Observer of dreams]

I understand the different ways we see this question, CJ smile.gif. One question, though: I've always taken Eden as an example that God did want a perfect world, but failed. If God knew that Adam and Eve would sin regardless of his warning, why warn them at all, except out of hope to prevent a sinful future? Why start with a perfect world, when you know you'll have to seal up the Garden and send the flood? Why must God search the Garden when Adam and Eve hide from him - not just because, as an omnipotent deity, he should surely know where they are, but because if he'd already forseen this future, why would it surprise him? Wouldn't he already know where they were going to be?

Actually, tell a lie, two questions: God gave sin to mankind as a punishment. Even after Adam and Eve ate the apple, it was God who punished them with disease, old age, decay, pain and death. Of itself, the apple only made them aware that they were naked, and caused their 'spiritual' deaths. So was it more important to God that mankind live in a Sinful world and choose him, rather than live in Eden while knowing the difference between good and evil? Which was the more perfect world?

Again (sorry!) three questions: If there was no evil in the world of Eden - if there was only good - then how could the apple make Adam and Eve able to distinguish good from evil, if there was no evil for them to distinguish good from? Lucifer (the serpent) was there, yes, but he was made apart from the world; Eden itself was free from evil. So what abilities did Adam and Eve gain, if there was no evil for them to percieve?

Finally (sorry!) number four: Adam and Eve were naked. If this was evil - as suggsted by the fact that they clothed themselves once they'd eaten - does this mean that there was evil in the Garden in the form of their nakedness since their creation, but that until they ate the apple, they weren't aware of it?

I believe the story of the garden of eden to be a myth that describes a persons temptation, a seduction of innocence if you will. It explains that innocence is golden and flawless. Little children are innocent. When they get older however they learn the wisdom of the world [foolish worldly knowledge] and become tempted by their environment. Genisis describes growth. Often Jesus is described as a second Adam. An Adam that didn`t take the apple, but rather shoved it back into the serpents face, and this is what redeems mankind. The secret is that mankind was already redeemed, as Jesus was created before man.

Another interesting concept. Is that in apocryphal texts we find that the story is deeper than we could ever imagine. God created other gods. This is what is meant by "You shall have no other gods before me" Do you think he would have described the devil, or the angels as a god? Surly this would be a lie. He created a female goddess that held wisdom. God was the word, the word and wisdom created jesus the light. So we have the word, the wisdom and the light. anyways I got off of the subject. Basically I don`t believe in the story of adam and eve as any more than a fable. I still believe it is a tale with a powerful message. I hope I didn`t rais more questions than I answered. God bless.