Spiritual cultivation equals God

[cjrose]

Thanks for the kind advice floatingaxe. I will give that a try. I have read any scripture in a while because it can be hard for me to understand at times. But what I am talking about is not something to get know but something you experience at every waking moment. A state of mind a being and experience that courses through you because you are centered and understanding the nature of all or most things. I will read some scripture though.

But the point I want to make is that, in my opinion, experiencing God is something any person can have if there heart is open or if they are spiritually sensitive to God. A teacher can be clever enough to open this to a student. Can communicate to him in a way that touches him to awaken. Sorta like the red dot in Indea. WE can open that third eye. As we become more spiritually sensitive or understand the nature of all things. You see, it's not the story of someone's life you read that you get it, but rather you apply concepts to your everyday life that the more you begin to understand the nature of all things.

God is what gives us the openess to recieve the knowledge of life. I give all the glory to Him who fills me with the fullfilment that there are things I didn't understand before and now have become aware of.

Be more spacific. Really try to explain exactly what that is. What is it precisely that God gives you that gives you the knowledge of life. that fills you with fullfilment? Because, that which you are describing I am describing. God has given me the openess to recieve the knowledge if life. As I spiritually grow, that is what I recieve. This is what you mean right?

I believe we are saying basically the same thing. When you have accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior, I believe our spirits live on a higher plane and are given the gift of wisdom and knowledge like just knowing that God's word is the truth, like stepping in to the light from the darkness. That's what it's like for me and as I grow more in my Sprituality, I learn more as God allows. Just as you pray and meditate on Him you rise to a higher level and become more spiritual and with that comes more knowledge.

I just had to come back and edit this post to ask you, since I haven't read the entire thread, have you accepted Jesus because billie is correct, you cannot get to God except through the Son and with the Son comes the spiritual gifts and knowledge.

If you have not accepted Jesus then we are not talking about the same thing. Pagans believe they have the knowlege because of their love of mother earth but are also contradictory in their teachings because they also believe in witchcraft which goes against God all together.

I have accepted Jesus. By awakening to the nature of all things, is when you experience God. I experienced that.

I'm not sure what you mean you accepted Jesus by awakening to the nature of all things, is when you experienced God.

Have you accepted that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, we were bought by His blood so that we can have salvation, eternal life in Heaven? Or did you feel some awakening of the nature of all/what things? I'm confused, please enlighten me?

[Manji]

I have accepted Jesus because not only have I always believed in the miracle of the virgin birth, the miracles Jesus did, what he taught, and the ressurection. That he bore the weight of man's sin, but I remember at the funeral that everything the pastors were saying really hit home and meant so much to me. So, surely I have accepted Christ as my lord and savior.

But em... About the nature of all things. The nature of all things is putting the worldly things into perspective. Realizing that they are impermanent. Realizing that clinging to things that are impermanent causes suffereing, and that but not being attached liberates from suffering, and living a life to realize that, puts life into perspective.

When I mention Mindfulness I mean by being mindful of forces that may cause you to not realize what I said above. Like sensual desire. a hinderance. If you buy things to make yourself feel happy, you could get into dept and not be happy. If you buy things to be happy you may not be happy. When realizing that hinderance you do not have to engage in it. your sensual desire can be a hinderance that ruins your ability to see things clearly as they are. When you filter reality through a hinderance like sensual desire it can cause to make decisions that are not wise or will be regretable later on. The goal is to obtain a reliable source of happiness. Another example would be sensual desire to eat more cake cause eating cake feels good. But, if you eat some cake that causes you to get sick cause you've had too much cake then you were lead by your sensual desire to eat the cake. By seeing if what you are doing brings what you seek helps you see reality as it really is and not as it appears. You make decisions that allow you to be happy. Be intolerant to your suffering but be tolerant to your happiness.

There are other hinderances but by not being entangled in them and seeing them as they come and not engaging in them cause you to see things as they are and causes you to be happy. I have experience this happiness before, but recently this happiness was so strong that I was aware that indeed this happiness is God's constant love to me that I am awakening to.

That's sorta what I mean by understanding the nature of all things and being mindful to help you stay seeing that clearly.

Edited August 22, 2006 by Manji

[Manji]

What are those Horizen east?

You already know what they are. Is this a test?

No I have not. I have never heard of those things you mentioned. I just looked them up on the net and I can see that I have never heard of those things.

Perhaps more simply said:

The less worldy we become, the more spirtualy we become, the more spiritually we become, the more God's presense sinks in.

"God is what gives us the openess to recieve the knowledge of life. I give all the glory to Him who fills me with the fullfilment that there are things I didn't understand before and now have become aware of."

By being open to God, through being less worldy you recieve the knowledge of life. This leads you to surrender to God.

[Manji]

Sorry to bring this topic back from the grave, but I have to admit I have been being coy with everyone here. I was being so because I had some worries that what I was trying to share might not get shared, but now I longer have that worry.

So, I will stop being coy and just try to be as honest as I possible can, God helpingly, with everyone. Okay, this is what it is all about:

I have skimmed through articles and such that Buddhists are generally very happy people. There was a moment in my life when I felt despair, fear, anxiety, sadness, worry, depression, so on and so fourth. Life just felt so overwhelming. The smallest problem was too great. I felt like I could parish at any moment. I've said to myself that I am gonna kill myself. But because I fear to do that because I believe suicide equals hell I whon't do it. Surely hell is worse than great sadness on earth. But the desire to give up is there and suffering just drains me and goes on. I wonder, how am I gonna live life from here on? How am I gonna survive?

One day this negative feeling got so strong that I started reading my Bible but I found no relief. I went into my father's libary and found one of his books titled, "Meditation in Action" As I began reading it I felt some of my pain quenched. The ideas and concepts were so interesting that I searched for a Buddhist forum and then found these audios of this Buddhist teacher. And listening to him really calmed me. I really enjoyed listening to what he was teaching. I loved it! It was so useful! I was getting alot from it. As I applied the dharma to my life my pain and suffering began to just melt away like snow in the sun. I felt a positive sense of well being and being centered. This was great.

Recently, I got back from a funeral and everything the pastors were saying and preaching were very touching. I really loved and appreciated it. I haven't gone to church much but, I have never heard a sermon (If you can call it that) that was so meaningful before. I feel in some way, I have recieved something spiritual from that experience.

Days after the funeral, I felt as though my mind was just sorta starting to put the, "nature of all things into perspective", according to the Dharma, that I began to feel a really high sensation of happiness. And this happiness was different. This happiness was coursing through me and was not just a happy state of being, but that I indeed was being loved by something. That something was loving me and that "it" had always loved me, and never stops loving me. It's just that I was asleep to "Its" love. But since I was beggining to awaken to it, I was noticing that it was talking to me or loving me. This is God I thought.

I don't know if I am just over reacting to this sense of happiness&well-being attained from practicing of the Dharma, with receiving God's Love, or not. But that is what I am associating it with.

So, that is what I am talking about.

Thank You.

[Floatingaxe]

To be frank with you, I do believe it was more than likely a false experience you were having generated by another spirit, not God at all. I sensed that from your very first post, which prompted me to ask you if you knew Jesus Christ as Saviour. Do you know Him as Lord? Anything that insinuates itself in a place before Jesus Christ is exalting itself over Him and that would not be of God. It is of the devil...don't forget, he often comes as an engel of "light"..causing counterfeit experiences. Counterfeits seem like the real thing, but Jesus is blatantly missing.

I would advise you to run from this stuff and embrace Jesus Christ only. You are dabbling in the occult, my friend, and are in spiritual peril.

[Manji]

Is meditation of the devil?

[Floatingaxe]

Is meditation of the devil?

Unless you are meditating on the Word of God---yes. It is opening your mind up to anything the evil one wants to put in there. We are not to allow our minds to become empty as man's version of meditation encourages.

[Manji]

So, when I meditate to be present. TO keep the mind present with the body. To not think of the future or the past and to just focus on the present by concentrating or focusing on the breath so, that I am not Fragmented and not lose touch with a holistic sense of myself. That is of the devil? Show me an educated priest that would actually explain why this form of meditation is of the devil. I would really like to read it.

Last I heard from two other hardcore Christians, they said that their Pastors explained to them that meditation is not wrong. That meditation is good.

Do you still consider meditation of the devil?

[Floatingaxe]

It is absolutely not of God to meditate like that. It makes your mind a doorway for the evil one to influence you.

The only meditation that the bible speaks of is to meditate on the Word of God and His works and ways:

Joshua 1:8

This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.

Psalm 1:2

But his delight is in the law of the LORD,And in His law he meditates day and night.

Psalm 63:6

When I remember You on my bed,I meditate on You in the night watches.

Psalm 77:6

I call to remembrance my song in the night;I meditate within my heart, And my spirit makes diligent search.

Psalm 77:12

I will also meditate on all Your work,And talk of Your deeds.

Psalm 119:15

I will meditate on Your precepts,And contemplate Your ways.

Psalm 119:23

Princes also sit and speak against me,But Your servant meditates on Your statutes.

Psalm 119:48

My hands also I will lift up to Your commandments,Which I love, And I will meditate on Your statutes.

Psalm 119:148

My eyes are awake through the night watches,That I may meditate on Your word.

1 Timothy 4:13-16

Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership. Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

[Manji]

Now, I did just skim through what you wrote so, if I missed anything please bare with me. Now all that you posted about meditating on the word of God is great and Awesome. But no where there did I see that it forbids meditation in the practice I mentioned earlier. So....

Tell me if these three things are of the devil or not:

1. Life means suffering.

To live means to suffer, because the human nature is not perfect and neither is the world we live in. During our lifetime, we inevitably have to endure physical suffering such as pain, sickness, injury, tiredness, old age, and eventually death; and we have to endure psychological suffering like sadness, fear, frustration, disappointment, and depression. Although there are different degrees of suffering and there are also positive experiences in life that we perceive as the opposite of suffering, such as ease, comfort and happiness, life in its totality is imperfect and incomplete, because our world is subject to impermanence. This means we are never able to keep permanently what we strive for, and just as happy moments pass by, we ourselves and our loved ones will pass away one day, too.

2. The origin of suffering is attachment.

The origin of suffering is attachment to transient things and the ignorance thereof. Transient things do not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas, and -in a greater sense- all objects of our perception. Ignorance is the lack of understanding of how our mind is attached to impermanent things. The reasons for suffering are desire, passion, ardour, pursue of wealth and prestige, striving for fame and popularity, or in short: craving and clinging. Because the objects of our attachment are transient, their loss is inevitable, thus suffering will necessarily follow. Objects of attachment also include the idea of a "self" which is a delusion, because there is no abiding self. What we call "self" is just an imagined entity, and we are merely a part of the ceaseless becoming of the universe.

3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.

The cessation of suffering can be attained through nirodha. Nirodha means the unmaking of sensual craving and conceptual attachment. The third noble truth expresses the idea that suffering can be ended by attaining dispassion. Nirodha extinguishes all forms of clinging and attachment. This means that suffering can be overcome through human activity, simply by removing the cause of suffering. Attaining and perfecting dispassion is a process of many levels that ultimately results in the state of Nirvana. Nirvana means freedom from all worries, troubles, complexes, fabrications and ideas. Nirvana is not comprehensible for those who have not attained it.

I ask everyone reading these posts to post their thoughts and opinion. Do you agree with floatingaxe, or do you agree attaining happiness by understanding the nature of all things can cause an experience of happiness so great that you know it is the love of God?

Also, who here would practice Tai chi or Yoga? How about you FloatingAxe? Would you practice Yoga or Tai Chi? Or is it forbiden according to the Christian perspective?

Edited August 24, 2006 by Manji