Proof in the existance of God

[sagz4Christ]

Life from non-life was accomplished by Dr. Sidney Fox, in the form of protocells, and he was nominated for a Nobel Peace prize. Even the Pope found his work amazing.

USA scientist credited with discovering life's origins

[Dr. Sidney Fox's] Scientific Discussions of Evolution for the Pope and His Scientists

Will post more later

-=Fovezer=-

I think this might be getting too far off base here. I don't want to lose our train of thought on this Fovezer.

You posted these links, and I glossed through them. Incredibly intersting to say the least.

I am going to wait to comment til after I hear what you have to say about it.

I would ask that those wishing to participate try to stick to the conversation, and direction thereof.

One more thing....if someone has said they hold no belief that the Bible proves there is a God, then we cannot keep throwing Scripture at that person thinking that "well, hopefully, one of these times, I'll get the right one and he will 'finally see the light.'"

I believe that if we continue to go down the course of this conversation, we will get to the point we are intending to get to. This topic, and the way it has been laid out to traverse, is going to take us through many different topics as we look at all the scientific evidence there is to believe that there is a God. Once we agree on that (and only if we do) then we can start making the arguement about which God it is we are talking about.

To catch everyone up, we have been talking about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. We also raised another topic about the verifiability principle of science, though we are waiting to continue on that topic. Right now, we are looking at abiogenesis. Some interesting questoins have been raised and some points to ponder that will be discussed if we can ever get beyond being sidetracked from the issues at hand.

I appreciate everyone's concern in this matter, though I think we could best serve our friend Fovezer by just sticking to the issue and not trying to cloud it by bringing up too many different subjects at one time.

Thank you all for your support and prayers

~serving Christ in faith

P.S. I shall try to keep a dictionary handy as well!

[Fovezer]

I think this might be getting too far off base here.  I don't want to lose our train of thought on this Fovezer.

I know, but I said I would post the evidence that someone had created life from non-life, so I had to post it.

I am going to wait to comment til after I hear what you have to say about it.

Could you clarify this, please. What do you want me to say?

One more thing....if someone has said they hold no belief that the Bible proves there is a God, then we cannot keep throwing Scripture at that person thinking that "well, hopefully, one of these times, I'll get the right one and he will 'finally see the light.'"

Thank you very much for being able to see it my way. You are first one so far who has noticed that. I had heard Psalms 14:1 a couple times already.

I believe that if we continue to go down the course of this conversation, we will get to the point we are intending to get to.  This topic, and the way it has been laid out to traverse, is going to take us through many different topics as we look at all the scientific evidence there is to believe that there is a God.  Once we agree on that (and only if we do) then we can start making the arguement about which God it is we are talking about.

Or believe that there isn't a god, but I agree fully with you.

To catch everyone up, we have been talking about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.  We also raised another topic about the verifiability principle of science, though we are waiting to continue on that topic.  Right now, we are looking at abiogenesis.  Some interesting questoins have been raised and some points to ponder that will be discussed if we can ever get beyond being sidetracked from the issues at hand.

I'm ready to continue whenever you are. If you could, it would be easier for me if you could repost some questions you had.

I appreciate everyone's concern in this matter, though I think we could best serve our friend Fovezer by just sticking to the issue and not trying to cloud it by bringing up too many different subjects at one time.

Thank you, again, for being able to put you feet in my shoes. There are many of you, and only one of me, making it extremely hard to answer all of your posts.

So everyone please post something relevent to the current conversation, or I am just going to ignore your post.

-=Fovezer=-

[WayneB]

I have read and understand the need and desire to focus the discussion of this thread on one issue, that being the proof of the existence of God through the study of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. I applaud the efforts and knowledge of Sagz4Christ and found his arguments logical and sound. I will continue reading the posts of the back and forth discussion with much interest. However, I would like to digress just one last time. Although much of what I will say is redundant, it has been impressed upon me to wrap up these few points into one package.

If you are searching for the truth through science, you won

[sagz4Christ]

If you are searching for the truth through science, you won

[sagz4Christ]

Fovezer,

USA scientist credited with discovering life's origins

[Dr. Sidney Fox's] Scientific Discussions of Evolution for the Pope and His Scientists

Will post more later

-=Fovezer=-

I took that last line to mean that you were going to comment on those articles and this subject. I may have misunderstood what you were saying though, as is often the case with me!

Sorry for the confusion!

~serving Christ in faith

[WayneB]

Brother Sagz4Christ,

You see, I believe that you CAN in fact find the truth through science, history, philosophy, etc. But the truth you find going that route is only that there is a power outside of the known universe that is the originator of all things.

I think we are saying the same thing but just in a slightly different way. Let me emphasize that what I meant is that we cannot find the one and only Truth through those disciplines apart from God. For that reason, I'm not convinced that they are good places to start. I believe the best place to start is with the Bible but I realize that is an entire different discussion. It is just my opinion but I respect yours and do not take offence if we differ somewhat. To me, it is slight difference since we both recognize that the Truth comes from God and the mysteries of science, history and philosophy cannot be understood apart from God and in the context of eternity. It doesn't matter which approach is right as long as it it leads all of us to the one and only Truth.

But we can only do one thing at a time, and that one thing right now has got to be to see the evidence through logically and completely.

Agreed my brother. I will now bow out and read as you progress with your arguements. I pray the Spirit of God lead and direct your thoughts and words.

In Christ,

Wayne

[Fovezer]

I took that last line to mean that you were going to comment on those articles and this subject.  I may have misunderstood what you were saying though, as is often the case with me!

Sorry for the confusion!

~serving Christ in faith

Yeah, I see what you meant. I meant post more in general. I see how you could have read that. I apologize for confusing you.

-=Fovezer=-

[Fovezer]

This is a topic I had planned loosely on getting to in the near future, when the opprotunity presented itself.  I do thank you for bringing it up, because it will give us our next direction to take.  A very important one, I might add too.  But we can only do one thing at a time, and that one thing right now has got to be to see the evidence through logically and completely.  So please read on, and correct things I say if you see any error in them, as I am sure our friend, Fovezer will do.  The only thing I ask, is what I asked of everyone in my last post, that we try and stick to the subject at hand, and put our thinking caps on as we post (this will be the most difficult for me ).

~serving Christ in faith

Let's move on. I'm ready. What shall the first topic be? Do you want to stick to the 2nd Law? We have discussed that, but I don't know if you want to continue down that path or start something else?

To Saved by Grave:

I don't mean to sound rude, and I did read your post, and it was well written and seemed thoughtful, but as I said before, I'm only one person and cannot comment on everything, so I will not comment on it unless it is on topic. Sorry!

[sagz4Christ]

I took that last line to mean that you were going to comment on those articles and this subject.

[WayneB]

I don't mean to sound rude, and I did read your post, and it was well written and seemed thoughtful, but as I said before, I'm only one person and cannot comment on everything, so I will not comment on it unless it is on topic. Sorry!

I completely understand. I don't take you as rude and I appreciate your acknowledgement. I wasn't looking for any comments and there is no need to apologize. Just wanted to finalize my thoughts. I look forward to y'alls discussion. It has been over 25 years since I took college Physics and General Chemistry so the exchange has been good for me.

I appreciate your kindness as well.

God Bless you friend,

Wayne