santa claus the evil and dangerous deceiver

[LadyRaven]

Ladyraven, that is a very thorough, balanced and thought out answer. Thank you. While I don't necessarily agree with everything you said 100%, I see that you have given a great deal of thought to your answer. A very sober response, and one I respect.

(I still won't have any santa figures or songs at home in future, though, simply because of it's occult traditions, which we are warned about)

Again, thank you and God bless

Thanks for the respect and discussion.

There's nothing wrong with taking something pagan and giving it a new meaning, and there's nothing wrong with avoiding pagan practices altogether. Both are done to the glory of God. "Santa" as we know him really isn't that as much as a pop culture marketing device, but if you can take pagan holly and ivy and make them Christian Christmas symbols, I don't see why you can't with the fat man. Or, you can avoid him. Either way is fine with me.

What has always irritated me is when people who really have no knowledge of paganism, pagan history and customs and the like peice together these expose's of our culture's symbols and really reach and dig to do it. Isn't it more intellectually honest to just ask "HEY, what does this fat dude have to do with the Christian understanding of the Incarnation? And if it doesn't have anything to do with it, WHY are we having him over for Christmas Dinner?" It's not alarmist, it's not a condemnation of those who seek to take dominion over the culture, and it's not going to fall prey to people who come along and critique our understanding of history and culture. It's just an honest question.

[nebula]

I just started reading through this, and I need to ask about this:

2. Santa is a stylized depiction of Thor, the 'god' of thunder,

Santa <<--link

Thor <<--link

I'm failing to see the connection.

[sweetycakes]

I just started reading through this, and I need to ask about this:

2. Santa is a stylized depiction of Thor, the 'god' of thunder,

Santa <<--link

Thor <<--link

I'm failing to see the connection.

Well, Nebula, maybe you should read the whole article

[nebula]

It's too long.

[billie]

Neb, if you've got kids or thinking of ever having them, it's worth it to read it.

[LadyRaven]

I just started reading through this, and I need to ask about this:

2. Santa is a stylized depiction of Thor, the 'god' of thunder,

Santa <<--link

Thor <<--link

I'm failing to see the connection.

IMO there isn't much of one...

and my son said that this depiction of thor was much "cooler looking." Maybe it's the wings on the side of his head?

[nebula]

C'mon - someone laugh! Sheesh! Didn't you even click on the links?

Billie - just so you know, I'm not new to the "Santa" debate. I have already decided that if I have children, I'm not going to be giving them Santa and the Easter Bunny. At the same time, I tend to veer towards the belief that being "anti-Santa" is the wrong focus. Santa isn't the problem with the degredation of Christmas. Atheism, Agnosticism, Post-Modernism, the ACLU, etc. are the problems.

[sweetycakes]

C'mon - someone laugh! Sheesh! Didn't you even click on the links?

[LadyRaven]

Neb, if you've got kids or thinking of ever having them, it's worth it to read it.

While I'm still looking for sources to back what I'm saying most of that article is bubkas and along the same line as the anti halloween tracts which state that the god of halloween was a celtic god named samhain. IOW, full of inaccuracies about pagan cultures and thus draws faulty conclusions. (Samhain is the name of the holiday the celts were celebrating, for one thing, not the name of any god).

Wouldn't it be a lot easier and more practical to just ask:

Am I going to celebrate Christmas as Jesus' birthday/incarnation festival or whatever?

Does the current Santa contribute anything postive to that experience...or does it detract from it.

Based on these facts, what should I do?

(And if I decide to include him, should I do the full tale or should I be honest and let my kids know it's pretend?)

Who or what Santa is derived from is not as important as the questions above...and they could also be applied to any other cultural aspect of Christmas (is this somethng I want as part of my Christmas or not).

[LadyRaven]

C'mon - someone laugh! Sheesh! Didn't you even click on the links?

I did. and I agree with my kid, the picture of Thor was much cooler looking.