Your allegiance...

[Scum_of_the_Earth]

But at what cost do we protect our freedoms? At the cost of another's life, so long as it isn't our own? By protecting our freedom, are we not impeding on someone else's? By impeding theirs, do we not tell them, by our actions, that we're more important than they?

I do not agree with the American ideology. I do not agree with the idealogy of any land.

I follow a Christ of scandalous grace. I follow a man that told his followers if they were struck on one cheek they were to turn the other to be struck as well. I serve a man that, instead of defending himself and fighting for his freedom, allowed Himself to be crucified for the good of the people that crucified Him.

How can we possibly fight the fight for freedom and say we follow Christ? The two do not coincide.

[Marnie]

There is a Flag Code which is supposed to be followed when displaying the US flag. Churches are not exempt from this. Obviously, they dont teach this is public school.

Here is link to the US Flag Code in detail.

Sec. 7. - Position and manner of display

The flag, when carried in a procession with another flag or flags, should be either on the marching right; that is, the flag's own right, or, if there is a line of other flags, in front of the center of that line.

(a) The flag should not be displayed on a float in a parade except from a staff, or as provided in subsection (i) of this section.

(b) The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or of a railroad train or a boat. When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the staff shall be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender.

[Scum_of_the_Earth]

lol

I love how everywhere I posted this, people want to make a comment about the flag and respond to that, but don't much care about the actual issue I'm addressing.

Although, on this board people have actually responded closer to the issue I'm presenting and held off on mentioning the flag for a few responses.

Just interesting...

[Scum_of_the_Earth]

Well Scum, thankfully there are a whole lot of brave men and women, many Christians, that don't feel as you do who are defending your right to make such statements.

I put my faith in my Creator, not our soldiers or our government.

If we didn't have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to gain and hourd as much of the world's resources as we wanted to while millions die in our backyards... maybe we would all be more like Christ, and thus, I wouldn't need to say what I'm saying.

But if it still needed to be said, I'd still say it, and I'd gladly die saying it.

My allegiance is to my Creator, not the place where I was born.

[Scum_of_the_Earth]

I forgive you for your condescending, insensitive comments.

[apothanein kerdos]

Seriously think about this, because I believe the vast majority on here would say that their allegiance is to God first and foremost, but I'm sorry I would have to say that if that is so, we so often contradict ourselves by placing allegiance to a country, to borders, over that of our allegiance to our Creator.

I have a friend in Texas. He noticed that when flags are displayed, the order of that display (even in churches) is 1) American Flag 2) Texas Flag 3) Christian Flag. It is that way because it is mandatory that it is that way. Our government does not in anyway allow us to hang a flag in a higher place, or in front of, the American Flag. So, according to that idea, our government, which I hear many say is a Christian government, puts country above God..interesting.

The Bible never condemns alligence to a nation. We never see in any of the Gospels or epistles the command to forsake the government. In fact, we see Christ, Paul, and even Peter stating we are to be subject to the governing authorities. In order to make yourself subject to a government, you need to have some form of an alligence. To have an alligence means to declare yourself accountable to whatever entity you so choose. Thus, if we are called to follow the laws, we are being told we are accountable to these governments, and therefore are to have an alligence to them. Yes, our alligence is to Christ first of all, but this inevitably means (in some cases) that we will also have to have an alligence with our own nation.

We serve ideals that are contradictory to scripture. Freedom of religion is not in scripture. The pursuit of happiness...not in scripture.

Actually, both are. Paul instructs us to reach out to the lost, but this is a request and not a forceful action. Notice that in the 5 times Paul references pagan beliefs, he never says "You shouldn't believe this" but instead gives an addition to them. This is not to say paganism is correct, but the silence of his condemnation is deafening.

As for pursuit of happiness...I encourage you to look up what this originally meant when the founding fathers penned it, for it is not what we consider it today and is very much a biblical idea. Schaeffer's "Christian Manifesto" dedicates a good paragraph to the issue.

Christ tells us we'll be hated and persecuted for serving Him, so what do we do? We fight to keep our religious freedom and our comfort from persecution. We try to spread the ideals that are against what Scripture says, against the message that Christ came to preach.

I think this is a misinterpretation of what Christ said. For one, the early church was not always persecuted; there were times of prosperity. What Christ was refering to was that persecution was inevitable, and if you have truly done anything for Christ (as I assuming you believe you have from your elevated platform from which you speak), then you should have felt persecution in some form. I live comfortable, I have a good life, and no one is threatening to lob my head off, yet I stand up for the truth of Christ every chance I get and I am on the front lines of the battle. Am I doing something wrong? What do you suggest I do to increase my persecution?

This place is not your home. Your inheritance is not here. Stop holding on to this ridiculous idea that your being a Christian gives you rights to comfort and safety. It doesn't. In fact, it all but guarantees your insecurity, your hardships, your pain, and even your death. It guarantees it. Stop fighting for something that is polar opposite of what Christ lived.

This might work for the Jehovah Witness, but not for the Biblically based Christian.

Scum, this place is in fact our home. I know, scripture says it is not. However, read the Bible as a whole. Paul and Peter are both refering to this place not being our home in the sense of morality, that we are not meant for a fallen world and a better one will come about. This place most certainly is our home and if this were meant in an ontological sense, then simply living around the lost would be a sin.

As for Christianity promising insecurity and death, where does the Bible say this? Especially on the insecurity. I know this is a popular idea among the Emergent Church teachings (which is a heresy btw) but it is not true. If you perform an action for God and are not secure about it, then you are essentially doing a very stupid thing because God has not brought peace to you. This is a scriptural idea.

Next time you feel the need to step up on that platform and condemn people you know nothing about, it might be best to see how high you'll have to fall.

[apothanein kerdos]

If we didn't have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to gain and hourd as much of the world's resources as we wanted to while millions die in our backyards...

Does someone have a violine handy?

Scum, you talk about grace but from what you are saying you know nothing about it. We have freedom and we should be grateful for it, and if we lose it then so be it. However, while we have it we should enjoy it and use it. Likewise, you say you place your trust in God as if He is seperate from the military. How dare you claim the name of Christ and speak of grace when you demean what good soldiers have done to save lives, which we are called to do by God. I think you forget that God created the physical world and uses it to fix problems in the physical world, sometimes this includes death (there is an Old Testament, you should read it).

Don't mention grace until you can show some to those who have been used by God to sacrifice their lives so you could be so utterly ungrateful and wrong.

[Scum_of_the_Earth]

I apologize for seeming to be accusing others of what I am ranting against. I often rant the hardest on the things I know that I too am guilty of. This message is just as much for me as anybody else that reads it. I apologize if it was posted with an air of pride, that was not my intent.

[apothanein kerdos]

I apologize for seeming to be accusing others of what I am ranting against. I often rant the hardest on the things I know that I too am guilty of. This message is just as much for me as anybody else that reads it. I apologize if it was posted with an air of pride, that was not my intent.

What's done is done but what I am more concerned about is the fact you are believing in a lie, a very dangerous belief that forms in a false sense of self-piety. It has absolutely zero biblical foundation.

[Gerioke]

I apologize for seeming to be accusing others of what I am ranting against. I often rant the hardest on the things I know that I too am guilty of. This message is just as much for me as anybody else that reads it. I apologize if it was posted with an air of pride, that was not my intent.

You know, for scum, you don't seem to be such a bad guy. I believe I understand what you are talking about as I have seen a lot of people yakking about how their country is the greatest. This suggests that other countries, even though they too have a substantial Christian population, are inferior to the copuntry of choice.

Marnie posted that piece about the flag is so great, yadda yadda, Yet the scriptures say "

Exodus 20: 3 You shall have no other gods before me. "

Is it just me or some people just way too attached to inanimate objects.