hell and mercy

[Guest man]

So do you still consider suicide to be a mortal sin?

Yes. There must be three things in place to commit a mortal sin.

1.) Must be grave matter, killing ones self is definantly this

2.) One has to know that it is a sin. Not everyone might know that this is a sin

3.) One has to then freely act on this sin. This is important, mental illness, pressure, sickness can all take away ones free will.

If these are all in place and then one kills themselves they could committ a mortal sin and not be around to repent. This is very bad

Where can the three things you mentioned be found in the bible?

Pax

You're not blowing me off are you?

[Floatingaxe]

A breaking of ANY commandment of God is a sin. We ALL know what the commandments are. Even secular laws are based on these very same 10 commandments.

Is suicide a sin? YES!!!! there is no doubt of this!

The second commandment is "Thou shall not kill." (Ex 20:13)

Unfortunately there are various translations to the affect of thou shall not murder, or thou shall not take a life. but even so I can find NO PLACE where God says "You cant kill anyone but yourself". If all commandments are written in the context of "You are commanded" and that is followed by "To not take a life" as in "Thou shall not kill" It does not matter WHO you kill, only that you killed and therefore broke a commandment of God.

Given, God will forgive you if you confess your sin and repent of that sin, but how can you expect to have any chance to repent if you have already died. If you are dead, that's it! Game Over!

Can a "Born-again" christian lose their salvation? No. We do know, however, that when you are judged by Jesus all your works will be tested by fire, and that unconfessed sin will reduce your rewards in heaven. (1Corinthians 3:12-15)

I agree with everything you wrote except the salvation part. Of course a person can loose their salvation. There are references in scripture of salvation being a past, present, and future event. Logically speaking how do you expect a person to turn away from sin if they are "saved." What's the point of not sleeping with my boyfriend, I'm "saved." What's the point of going to Church, I'm "saved."

Again I will point to 1 Corinthians 3:15 "If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet as through fire."

What is the point of going to church? The point of reading the Bible? Because these are the things we are supposed to do to bring us closer to God. These are the "good works" that we will be rewarded for. There are many other things God wants us to do, all of which are designed to 1) bring us closer to Him, and 2) bring others closer to Him.

If it is possible to lose your salvation then does that not say that Christ's death on the cross was not the perfect sacrifice that was needed? Why was Jesus sent to doe on the cross anyway? The practice of an animal sacrifice was so imperfect that it needed to be replaced. An animal, ANY animal is in no way comparable to the sin free being that Christ was on earth. That was the reason that an animal sacrifice was needed so often. It was an inperfect covering of our sins. Jesus, being sin free and perfect was the ultimate covering for the sins of man.

Isaiah 51:6 "Lift up your eyes to the sky, then look to the earth beneath; For the sky will vanish like smoke, and the earth will wear out like a garment, and it's inhabitants will die in like manner, but My salvation shall be forever, and My righteousness shall not wane."

Do I mean that once we are saved we can go about our lives as we want, sinning like the non-belivers? No. We are commanded to do His will. More than that, we should want to do all things by the guiding principle of how does God want us to live. If we truely repent, and accept the salvation that Jesus gave us then we should have no problem with living as he wants. If we do not want to live as He wants, then the question is "Did we really accept his gift of salvation?"

What about Mathew 10:22 "He who endures to the end will be saved." Lets see why do we have to wait until the end to be saved. According to many Protestant mininsters a person can be saved right now.

What about Phil 2:12 "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Boy why would I have to do this, I thought salvation was a one time event.

These are just two examples in the Bible of salvation being more than a one time event.

OY! The Holy Spirit speaks from the Word of God and gives us understanding. Ask Him to show you the meanings of these passages, Pax.

[EricH]

Once again, this will not be turned into an apologetic for the Catholic Church, or an attack on protestants in general. I am removing and editing some posts here to clean it up.

[EricH]

My point about the Trinity is that it is never mentioned by word in the Bible but is implied. Much like suicide is, not mentioned by word (that I know of) but is implied to be a sin.

I also don't know what you mean by being anointed, is that "saved"? I am Catholic and anointing someone is what the Priest does when a person is gravely ill and close to death.

Implied....the bible doesn't say suicide is a sin but people have taken it upon themselves to add it to the list of sins. Since the Word of God does not address this issue, I don't see where anyone can call it a sin.

In 1 Samuel 31:4 Saul committed suicide. In 2 Samuel 1:14 David calls Saul the Lord's anointed.

I'm just wondering...in your opinion...since you believe suicide to be a sin...what happened to the Lord's anointed after he killed himself?

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

Saul was being pursued by the Philistines in battle, he had also been wounded by an arrow in the stomach. I would put Saul in the category above. Suicide being a sin isn't always black and white as some in the Catholic Church believe.

We should not despair the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways know to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. (taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church) 2283

This doesn't mean that it is o.k. to kill yourself, it clearly isn't. However, there may be mercy for one that does.

So do you still consider suicide to be a mortal sin?

Yes. There must be three things in place to commit a mortal sin.

1.) Must be grave matter, killing ones self is definantly this

2.) One has to know that it is a sin. Not everyone might know that this is a sin

3.) One has to then freely act on this sin. This is important, mental illness, pressure, sickness can all take away ones free will.

If these are all in place and then one kills themselves they could committ a mortal sin and not be around to repent. This is very bad

Could you point us to some scripture that supports this?

[EricH]

My point about the Trinity is that it is never mentioned by word in the Bible but is implied. Much like suicide is, not mentioned by word (that I know of) but is implied to be a sin.

I also don't know what you mean by being anointed, is that "saved"? I am Catholic and anointing someone is what the Priest does when a person is gravely ill and close to death.

Implied....the bible doesn't say suicide is a sin but people have taken it upon themselves to add it to the list of sins. Since the Word of God does not address this issue, I don't see where anyone can call it a sin.

In 1 Samuel 31:4 Saul committed suicide. In 2 Samuel 1:14 David calls Saul the Lord's anointed.

I'm just wondering...in your opinion...since you believe suicide to be a sin...what happened to the Lord's anointed after he killed himself?

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

Saul was being pursued by the Philistines in battle, he had also been wounded by an arrow in the stomach. I would put Saul in the category above. Suicide being a sin isn't always black and white as some in the Catholic Church believe.

We should not despair the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways know to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. (taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church) 2283

This doesn't mean that it is o.k. to kill yourself, it clearly isn't. However, there may be mercy for one that does.

So do you still consider suicide to be a mortal sin?

Yes. There must be three things in place to commit a mortal sin.

1.) Must be grave matter, killing ones self is definantly this

2.) One has to know that it is a sin. Not everyone might know that this is a sin

3.) One has to then freely act on this sin. This is important, mental illness, pressure, sickness can all take away ones free will.

If these are all in place and then one kills themselves they could committ a mortal sin and not be around to repent. This is very bad

This may be what your church says, but it isn't what the Bible teaches. All sins are mortal, if they aren't repented of! Stop pushing your stuff on us.

Man ask me a question so I am going to answer it. It gets real old when you keep interjecting yourself in other peoples conversations.

These are public forums. If you make some contentions as being biblical, expect to be challenged as to their validity. Anyone is free to respond on these forums as long as they abide by the rules. It is a fair question that is being asked. Namely for you to defend biblically the statements you made above

[Pax]

My point about the Trinity is that it is never mentioned by word in the Bible but is implied. Much like suicide is, not mentioned by word (that I know of) but is implied to be a sin.

I also don't know what you mean by being anointed, is that "saved"? I am Catholic and anointing someone is what the Priest does when a person is gravely ill and close to death.

Implied....the bible doesn't say suicide is a sin but people have taken it upon themselves to add it to the list of sins. Since the Word of God does not address this issue, I don't see where anyone can call it a sin.

In 1 Samuel 31:4 Saul committed suicide. In 2 Samuel 1:14 David calls Saul the Lord's anointed.

I'm just wondering...in your opinion...since you believe suicide to be a sin...what happened to the Lord's anointed after he killed himself?

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

Saul was being pursued by the Philistines in battle, he had also been wounded by an arrow in the stomach. I would put Saul in the category above. Suicide being a sin isn't always black and white as some in the Catholic Church believe.

We should not despair the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways know to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. (taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church) 2283

This doesn't mean that it is o.k. to kill yourself, it clearly isn't. However, there may be mercy for one that does.

So do you still consider suicide to be a mortal sin?

Yes. There must be three things in place to commit a mortal sin.

1.) Must be grave matter, killing ones self is definantly this

2.) One has to know that it is a sin. Not everyone might know that this is a sin

3.) One has to then freely act on this sin. This is important, mental illness, pressure, sickness can all take away ones free will.

If these are all in place and then one kills themselves they could committ a mortal sin and not be around to repent. This is very bad

This may be what your church says, but it isn't what the Bible teaches. All sins are mortal, if they aren't repented of! Stop pushing your stuff on us.

Man ask me a question so I am going to answer it. It gets real old when you keep interjecting yourself in other peoples conversations.

These are public forums. If you make some contentions as being biblical, expect to be challenged as to their validity. Anyone is free to respond on these forums as long as they abide by the rules. It is a fair question that is being asked. Namely for you to defend biblically the statements you made above

Yes these are public forums but I am getting sick of FloatingAxe interjecting herself into my conversations with other people in a rude manner.

I specifically like the part where FloatingAxe tells me to "Stop pushing your stuff on us". I don't push anything, just answer questions. I could say the same thing to FA, she is constantly trying to cram her ideas down my throat and if I disagree watch out, she will be sending me rude P.M.'s.

[Pax]

My point about the Trinity is that it is never mentioned by word in the Bible but is implied. Much like suicide is, not mentioned by word (that I know of) but is implied to be a sin.

I also don't know what you mean by being anointed, is that "saved"? I am Catholic and anointing someone is what the Priest does when a person is gravely ill and close to death.

Implied....the bible doesn't say suicide is a sin but people have taken it upon themselves to add it to the list of sins. Since the Word of God does not address this issue, I don't see where anyone can call it a sin.

In 1 Samuel 31:4 Saul committed suicide. In 2 Samuel 1:14 David calls Saul the Lord's anointed.

I'm just wondering...in your opinion...since you believe suicide to be a sin...what happened to the Lord's anointed after he killed himself?

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

Saul was being pursued by the Philistines in battle, he had also been wounded by an arrow in the stomach. I would put Saul in the category above. Suicide being a sin isn't always black and white as some in the Catholic Church believe.

We should not despair the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways know to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. (taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church) 2283

This doesn't mean that it is o.k. to kill yourself, it clearly isn't. However, there may be mercy for one that does.

So do you still consider suicide to be a mortal sin?

Yes. There must be three things in place to commit a mortal sin.

1.) Must be grave matter, killing ones self is definantly this

2.) One has to know that it is a sin. Not everyone might know that this is a sin

3.) One has to then freely act on this sin. This is important, mental illness, pressure, sickness can all take away ones free will.

If these are all in place and then one kills themselves they could committ a mortal sin and not be around to repent. This is very bad

Could you point us to some scripture that supports this?

Is this a set up?

[Floatingaxe]

My point about the Trinity is that it is never mentioned by word in the Bible but is implied. Much like suicide is, not mentioned by word (that I know of) but is implied to be a sin.

I also don't know what you mean by being anointed, is that "saved"? I am Catholic and anointing someone is what the Priest does when a person is gravely ill and close to death.

Implied....the bible doesn't say suicide is a sin but people have taken it upon themselves to add it to the list of sins. Since the Word of God does not address this issue, I don't see where anyone can call it a sin.

In 1 Samuel 31:4 Saul committed suicide. In 2 Samuel 1:14 David calls Saul the Lord's anointed.

I'm just wondering...in your opinion...since you believe suicide to be a sin...what happened to the Lord's anointed after he killed himself?

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

Saul was being pursued by the Philistines in battle, he had also been wounded by an arrow in the stomach. I would put Saul in the category above. Suicide being a sin isn't always black and white as some in the Catholic Church believe.

We should not despair the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways know to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. (taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church) 2283

This doesn't mean that it is o.k. to kill yourself, it clearly isn't. However, there may be mercy for one that does.

So do you still consider suicide to be a mortal sin?

Yes. There must be three things in place to commit a mortal sin.

1.) Must be grave matter, killing ones self is definantly this

2.) One has to know that it is a sin. Not everyone might know that this is a sin

3.) One has to then freely act on this sin. This is important, mental illness, pressure, sickness can all take away ones free will.

If these are all in place and then one kills themselves they could committ a mortal sin and not be around to repent. This is very bad

This may be what your church says, but it isn't what the Bible teaches. All sins are mortal, if they aren't repented of! Stop pushing your stuff on us.

Man ask me a question so I am going to answer it. It gets real old when you keep interjecting yourself in other peoples conversations.

These are public forums. If you make some contentions as being biblical, expect to be challenged as to their validity. Anyone is free to respond on these forums as long as they abide by the rules. It is a fair question that is being asked. Namely for you to defend biblically the statements you made above

Yes these are public forums but I am getting sick of FloatingAxe interjecting herself into my conversations with other people in a rude manner.

I specifically like the part where FloatingAxe tells me to "Stop pushing your stuff on us". I don't push anything, just answer questions. I could say the same thing to FA, she is constantly trying to cram her ideas down my throat and if I disagree watch out, she will be sending me rude P.M.'s.

What rude PM's? Why single me out like that? What ideas do I cram? Nothing that isn't biblical, I assure you!

[ayin jade]

Yes. There must be three things in place to commit a mortal sin.

1.) Must be grave matter, killing ones self is definantly this

2.) One has to know that it is a sin. Not everyone might know that this is a sin

3.) One has to then freely act on this sin. This is important, mental illness, pressure, sickness can all take away ones free will.

If these are all in place and then one kills themselves they could committ a mortal sin and not be around to repent. This is very bad

Could you point us to some scripture that supports this?

Is this a set up?

Pax, you did post something you believe in. It is a valid question to ask for scriptural proof of your claim. I too am curious what scriptural backing you have for this viewpoint.

[Pax]

My point about the Trinity is that it is never mentioned by word in the Bible but is implied. Much like suicide is, not mentioned by word (that I know of) but is implied to be a sin.

I also don't know what you mean by being anointed, is that "saved"? I am Catholic and anointing someone is what the Priest does when a person is gravely ill and close to death.

Implied....the bible doesn't say suicide is a sin but people have taken it upon themselves to add it to the list of sins. Since the Word of God does not address this issue, I don't see where anyone can call it a sin.

In 1 Samuel 31:4 Saul committed suicide. In 2 Samuel 1:14 David calls Saul the Lord's anointed.

I'm just wondering...in your opinion...since you believe suicide to be a sin...what happened to the Lord's anointed after he killed himself?

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

Saul was being pursued by the Philistines in battle, he had also been wounded by an arrow in the stomach. I would put Saul in the category above. Suicide being a sin isn't always black and white as some in the Catholic Church believe.

We should not despair the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways know to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. (taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church) 2283

This doesn't mean that it is o.k. to kill yourself, it clearly isn't. However, there may be mercy for one that does.

So do you still consider suicide to be a mortal sin?

Yes. There must be three things in place to commit a mortal sin.

1.) Must be grave matter, killing ones self is definantly this

2.) One has to know that it is a sin. Not everyone might know that this is a sin

3.) One has to then freely act on this sin. This is important, mental illness, pressure, sickness can all take away ones free will.

If these are all in place and then one kills themselves they could committ a mortal sin and not be around to repent. This is very bad

This may be what your church says, but it isn't what the Bible teaches. All sins are mortal, if they aren't repented of! Stop pushing your stuff on us.

Man ask me a question so I am going to answer it. It gets real old when you keep interjecting yourself in other peoples conversations.

These are public forums. If you make some contentions as being biblical, expect to be challenged as to their validity. Anyone is free to respond on these forums as long as they abide by the rules. It is a fair question that is being asked. Namely for you to defend biblically the statements you made above

Yes these are public forums but I am getting sick of FloatingAxe interjecting herself into my conversations with other people in a rude manner.

I specifically like the part where FloatingAxe tells me to "Stop pushing your stuff on us". I don't push anything, just answer questions. I could say the same thing to FA, she is constantly trying to cram her ideas down my throat and if I disagree watch out, she will be sending me rude P.M.'s.

What rude PM's? Why single me out like that? What ideas do I cram? Nothing that isn't biblical, I assure you!

The PM that told me to stop cramming Catholic doctrine down our throats? On this thread Man is asking me about my views on mortal sin. I told him what I think, this if followed by a moderator deleting parts of my post and you prublically telling me to "stop pushing my stuff on us". I answer questions, and refrute Catholic bashing which is common on here. You are very strong willed and someone doesn't agree with you, you get mad.