What happens to those without knowledge of Christ?

[Floatingaxe]

But one must remember God is a merciful God and ignorance lowers ones culpability.

Nothing lowers culpability--if one is guilty before the Holy God, then one is guilty! That view stated above is a humanistic one.

[Smalcald]

Indeed no one will be saved except through faith in Christ. But I see a misunderstanding and a limited view of that faith and of Christ and His power in some our posts.

How do we know, that Christ does not come to those who have not heard of Him (due to our weak evangelization) at the moment when they pass from life to death? How do we know what Christ does in all of these cases? It is Christ who saves neither us nor our worthless efforts; we are saved by grace. We are simply vessels of His Word. We evangelize because He told us to, period. Who evangelized Paul? Who led Paul to Christ?

We are over thinking this issue, which is okay unless it leads us to heresy. So in our over thinking we now have come to the conclusion, well those people who did not hear about Christ in a way that we approve of, IF they were "good" people, if they were "open" to the Word, etc, then they were saved, if that is not a works based approach I don't know what is. We are all condemned under sin, nothing we do will gain us salvation as it will fall short, only Christ can save anyone through His atoning sacrifice for our sins. For His sake alone are we saved, nothing that we do can please God without Christ, there nothing someone who never heard of Christ could do to be good enough to earn salvation.

But with God everything is possible.

[Candi770]

Salvation only comes through Christ. And the nations that you have spoken of are those who persecute christians, these christians are heavy labors for the kingdom, I am not persuated that the Hindus or Islamic people have not had a chance to receive him-they are killing the people who bring the message, they know why they are doing what they are doing. Yes God still wants them to be saved. They have the same choices that their fellow countrymen had and are currently being persecuted for. Those Hindus and Islamic people are afraid to accept him, If they are deny Him, He will deny them-simple.

[HAZARD]

There were millions of men, women and children, people over the ages who have died, and who are now living in the depths of Asia, Africa, Tibet, India, South America, Australia and China, to name only a few countries, who have never heard of Jesus Christ, God, or ever saw or read a Bible, or met a minister of any Church. If this were not true, these statements by Paul would not have been made.

Paul stated in Romans 2;12-16 that God will do right by every man according to the light he has recieved. He said, "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusuing one another;) In the day when God shalljudge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

In other words; "God will deal with every one, including the heathen, who have never heard of the gospel. He will deal with them on the basis of the light they have recieved, and on the basis of obeying their own conscience" (Romans 2;12-16).

Haz.

[Smalcald]

I agree that God will deal with everyone.

However without Christ we are dead and they are dead who have not heard of Christ it does not matter. Every single human would and will go to hell without faith in Jesus Christ. So the light that they receive must be Christ if they are to be saved. We know it will have nothing to do with their works or how they have lived their lives, as all fall short, there is none righteous not one.

The question comes down then to what exactly does faith mean, and how can people acquire faith? Can someone who has never heard of Christ in this life gain faith in Christ? Who creates faith in Christ? We don

[HAZARD]

I agree that God will deal with everyone.

However without Christ we are dead and they are dead who have not heard of Christ it does not matter. Every single human would and will go to hell without faith in Jesus Christ. So the light that they receive must be Christ if they are to be saved. We know it will have nothing to do with their works or how they have lived their lives, as all fall short, there is none righteous not one.

The question comes down then to what exactly does faith mean, and how can people acquire faith? Can someone who has never heard of Christ in this life gain faith in Christ? Who creates faith in Christ? We don

[Smalcald]

Hi.

No I don't think so.

He will not deal with them based on any of their own abilities or their conscience or their works, anymore than He will deal with us in that way. Light yes, as He is the only light needed for salvation. We cannot revert to a works based idea for salvation. All fall short of the Glory of God, and their sins will and would condemn them, no human being can be saved because of their own good works or conscience, in that regard we all have the stain of sin from conception forward.

He will save them if that is His will, but it will be through a faith in Christ. Babies can and do have faith in Christ, faith is not intellectually dependant, it is created by the Holy Spirit and is transforming. God is not an irrational killer; we know that about His nature, I don't worry about how God will treat these people. I do worry that we were such poor evangelists that they could not all rest in the assurance of His salvation while they lived on this earth though.

[Smalcald]

No you are confusing the issue at hand I think you are misunderstanding me. The bible states clearly that NOBODY can be saved by their works or their conscience or their own abilities no one can be saved outside of Christ as we are all sinful and fall short, "There is NONE righteous not one" That includes everybody including those who don't know Christ or have never heard of Him.

The point I am making is that there are not separate ways to God, "there is ONE mediator" between man and God, the Man Jesus Christ" you know those versus as well as I cardcaptor. If you claim that those who have never heard of Christ are saved NOT by faith in Christ but by their own works or their own conscience, and then you have just set up two or more ways to God, Christ then did not die for them. It is leaving the very basics of our faith. Read Galatians over again, all of Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, etc supports this view, and it is the basis of our beliefs.

So God will deal with them in His way, and the only way they will be saved is through faith in Jesus Christ. What we don't understand exactly is how God will work that for some of these people, but He will. I think the problem many people make is trying to limit the power of God. There is not a "formula" for faith in Christ. You either have it, or you don't, and there is not one way to get it that is approved, and one way that is not approved. Paul never once repented BEFORE having faith in Christ, read about his conversion in Acts 9. What he did was get up and obey as Christ commanded him to do.

Now maybe the fact is that no one who never had the chance to hear the Word of God would have believed it, this is possible and that is why God never made the Gospel available to them. We just don't know, and why speculate.

What we do know is this that salvation is only through faith in Christ alone. Faith alone, grace alone, and scripture alone, this is what we need. Now I know you are into obedience, and this is a good thing, all saved Christians will want to be obedient to Christ, and we will be judged accordingly, but we will not be judged by our works, for if that were the case we would all die and go to hell. Our obedience is never enough we are never sanctified on this earth in this body, we sin until the bitter end, every saved Christian if his or her sins were actually accounted for by God, would go to hell, but they are not, our names are in the Book Of Life, a SEPERATE book from those who are judged according to their works and will perish.

[EricH]

Actually Ephesians 2:8-10 spells out the exact relationship bewtween salvation and works. Works are a result of savlation, not a cause.

[Floatingaxe]

Actually Ephesians 2:8-10 spells out the exact relationship bewtween salvation and works. Works are a result of savlation, not a cause.

Simple and true! Yep, yep!