Father, why hast thou forsaken me?

[Manji]

I think Jesus said this because he had to be foresaken by God to do the deed of bearing the weight of man's sin. What our your thoughts or that which is taught about this line in the Bible?

[Tribulation]

I think Jesus said this because he had to be foresaken by God to do the deed of bearing the weight of man's sin. What our your thoughts or that which is taught about this line in the Bible?

Psalm 22

1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28 For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.

29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

[Candi770]

He who is sinless, who had never experienced the seperation that sin causes that all of mankind experiences, he felt what the hell of separation from the Father felt like. God can not be present in your heart when sin abides. Jesus took on what he did not deserve to give us what we did not deserve=all because he loved us and now we can have reconsiliation with the Father. What Love!!!! What Grace and Mercy he showed us!!!

candi

[The One]

He who is sinless, who had never experienced the seperation that sin causes that all of mankind experiences, he felt what the hell of separation from the Father felt like. God can not be present in your heart when sin abides. Jesus took on what he did not deserve to give us what we did not deserve=all because he loved us and now we can have reconsiliation with the Father. What Love!!!! What Grace and Mercy he showed us!!!

candi

Man is not powerless against God; as in the Garden of Eden, man often violates God's laws (and pays the price for it). In the case of Jesus, Man poured all its sins on God by the simple fact of not acknowledging that Jesus was God and giving Jesus his due respect. The sins against Jesus were surely the work of the devil. Man chose the devil over Jesus.

Jesus offers forgiveness for all sins, but first the sinner must acknowledge and repent his sins. Because Jews never repented, they were not forgiven, although they may still repent and be forgiven.

[Manji]

So, not even Jesus could be consoled from God because all chance of that was ellimanated by original sin. Now it is possible to be consoled because Jesus did the deed of dying without sin and being foresaken by God.

Is this correct?

Edited September 24, 2006 by Manji

[The One]

So, not even Jesus could be consoled from God because all chance of that was ellimanated by original sin. Now it is possible to be consoled because Jesus did the deed of dying without sin and being foresaken by God.

Is this correct?

Jesus will have a period in his second coming where he once again experiences the sins of mankind. This is clear where it says "he will come as an idiot". If he did not experience the sins of mankind in his second coming, he would immediately be proclaimed King.

Yet, Jesus has not actually arrived until after the final conflict, even though he is here in some form. Only at that point one can truly be consoled.

[apothanein kerdos]

"My God my God ......."

These are the words of someone who definitely did not expect to be there.

Except for the prophesies that He gave stating He woudl die in such a manner.......what, you think He was kidding and it just happened to turn out true?

[Floatingaxe]

"My God my God ......."

These are the words of someone who definitely did not expect to be there.

Huh? Oh yeah, I see, He was taken by surprise because He didn't know He was being sent to die for our sin? Come on!

Jesus Christ fulfills EVERY prophetic utterance from the OT! EVERY ONE. You can't decide when and where you are born unless you are the Son of God, so the comment that He made Himself fit into prophecy as if He was some kind of charlatan, is bogus.

[apothanein kerdos]

Then why was he surprised?

You're presupposing that He was surpsied. How is quoting Psalm 22 evidence of His surprise?

As for the prophcies, how were they pulled out? Likewise, why trust modern Jewish scholarship when they don't even follow the Torah in terms of forgiveness of sins?

[Candi770]

The One,

I was speaking about Christ and His taking on our sin on the cross.

candi