It is not wrong for Gods servants to be wealthy!!

[pointer]

That is utterly irrelevant, and not at all in dispute. Did the Egyptians forbid theft, or not?

Did they, I suppose they did

Thank you. All civilisations, ancient and modern, Hebrew and Gentile, have proscribed theft, whether they had a Torah or not. A baby with a small toy knows that theft is wrong.

[Guest shiloh357]

A baby with a small toy knows that theft is wrong.

No, you are wrong on that point. Little children must be taught not to steal, just as they must be taught not to lie or cheat or hurt other people.

If values were inherent in a baby, we would not need laws in the first place. Laws prevent people from imposing their immorality on others. Laws regulate human behavior and prevent us from actintg on our baser instincts to do what is in our best interest at someone else's expense.

[anitarose]

gee and I thought this was going to be a friendly thread.....simmer down, y'all and fight intelligently....sheesh....

Anita

That looks pretty unfriendly.

What, me? I'm not involved in this.....I'm just reading it and I'm getting more and more frustrated because of the level of animosity...are we not all Christians here? Have we all not accepted Jesus as our Savior? Then why the bickering?

Just trying to play peacemaker, that's all...

Anita

[pointer]

Little children must be taught not to steal

They know that stealing is wrong just as soon as they steal from one another. They know that biting is wrong as soon as they get bitten. To be human is to be moral.

[ayin jade]

To be human is to be moral.

You are kidding me right?

If being human is being moral, then why is this world in the shape it is in? Why do we have so many criminals? Why is there a rise of those who murder people without any care that they are killing? If being human is being moral, then why is everyone a sinner?

[Guest shiloh357]

Little children must be taught not to steal

They know that stealing is wrong just as soon as they steal from one another. They know that biting is wrong as soon as they get bitten. To be human is to be moral.

Wrong again. Your above statement is contradictory. Humanity is not moral. If it were, we would not need laws. Your argument implodes upon itself because if being human means to be moral, a child would not steal or get bitten in the first place. Humanity is grossly immoral. The Bible says, "In this flesh there dwelleth no good thing.

You need to examine your posts a bit before posting such nonsense. It really makes you look foolish.

[apothanein kerdos]

Pointer,

Are you even a Christian?

[KeilanS]

Children do not know things like that unless they are taught them. Children don't just know. They bite other children because they don't know any better. If they already knew, why would we not punish them? You don't give a one year old child a spanking because they stole a toy from the church daycare, you return it and apologize on their behalf. We need to be taught the rules, rules which at one point or another, came from the bible.

[pointer]

To be human is to be moral.

If being human is being moral, then why is this world in the shape it is in?

I don't mean 'moral' in the sense of 'good'. I mean it in the sense of having moral choice.

[Guest Theology_Professor]

There's nothing wrong with having wealth and possessions as long as you possess them and they do not possess you.

I've noticed there is more concern with a minister that has wealth than, for a congregation to be truely concerned for the pastor who is truely poor by the world's standards. It's as if it is more acceptible for them to be poor than have wealth. Now if they found their wealth on their own, which some have then great. But if they line their pocket with money they sheer off the sheep, then that's another story.

blessings

candi

The shepherd deserves every penny he gets from his own sheep. He is accountable to God for their spiritual life, which also affects every other part of their life. If the sheep would honor him/her, their tithes and offerings would increase greatly. While you may not need his/her assistance outside sunday am, there are plenty that do. A real pastor is on-call 24/7. If a medical doctor who is a professional in the field can make millions, so should a pastor who has taken the time and education to get the skill and relationship with the Lord that God requires to shepherd properly. Too many have snuck in the backdoor claiming to be pastors when they are no such thing. Buying degrees. Buying ordination. The pastoral position is much more than this. Giving 10% of our income to the church, of which a part goes to the pastor, is only the small portion we are to begin at giving. It is fine for a pastor to drive a cadillac, as they are in the car quite a bit going here and there to minister and speak. It is fine for them to have a nice house, as they need a break from the people... their own sanctuary away from the masses of people. At the same time, they need to watch over the care and concern of not only those in their congregation, but others in the world that come to them seeking help. Just because a person is not in their congregation, they should still get help. If they are Christian, no matter where they come from, they should be helped. Are we not one body? Why is it then that churches will turn away truely needy people... such as suddenly lost jobs or something with the kids, just because "you're not in our congregation"? What kind of witness are you being to other christians? You could turn people away from the faith because of these actions. The wealthy need to help. Whether that wealth is the pastor or congregation. (I am not talking about homeless who are drug addicts, thieves, criminals, insane)... I am talking about every day people who need help.