Ask a Catholic

[Fiosh]

Greetings brothers and sisters in Christ,

My intent with this thread is NOT to proselytize or convert.

Simply put, I wish to offer accurate information concerning the teaching of the RCC in order to promote understanding.

Many times here at WB I've seen gross misrepresentations of what I supposedly believe as a Catholic Christian.

I certainly can understand that many of you disagree with the RCC, and I respect your opinion. But I would at least like to offer you the opportunity to disagree with the actual doctrines of the RCC and not what others claim them to be.

All resident Catholics are invited to respond to the questions. But, I would ask several things:

1. NO personal OPINIONS. Respond with verifiable info from the Catechism, Vatican II docs, Early Church Fathers and other approved RCC sources.

2. NO apologetics. I refuse to argue "right or wrong" on this thread. If anyone desires to discuss any particular doctrine, start a new thread and I'll gladly meet you there.

3. NO bashing from either side. Can we keep it friendly?

I will ask the mods to delete any post from either "camp", including my own, that is not presented in a Christian manner.

I have no ulterior motive. Jesus prayed that we all be one. It truly saddens me that we are often so far apart. Yet, I will not compromise what I believe; and I don't expect you do compromise your beliefs. But maybe we can come to at least recognize that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, trying to follow and serve Him with sincere hearts.

If the mods won't allow this discussion, I'll respect that. I only ask that they prayerfully consider it, as I have done.

So..............

Go ahead, ask any question you like about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches.

Peace,

Fiosh

Where and when did we acquire the extra books of the Bible that the KJV Bible does not carry and other denominations do not seem to agree with or folloow?

Where in the KJV Bible are we told to pray to other saints, as well as The Lord God through Jesus Christ? Where we required to do our Roman Catholic Mass in Latin in earlier years and why? And why did that change if we were required so? Same with not eating meats on Friday? Was it Law and Why did it change...There are probably many more that you remember that I don't but these are the things that have led many Roman Catholics away or partly from the Church...As I know that our church as provided as much good for our faith and our world that many are not aware of, I am grateful for those things. But you must admit, much of our religion was considered Taboo, to some degree in the ways that they taught. (Ex: We were not encouraged to study the KJV Bible until recent years , when the church finally realized that far too many were doing it on their own. ) (The Catholic Church seems to put more emphasis in the Blessed Virgin Mary for prayertime than it does to the Lord God himself?) We all need to realize that this is not proper. I do realize that we need to give recognition to Mary for her works and obedience, but in any given church one might find more statues and emphasis on Mary and other saints than The Lord God himself.....( I attended a mass several years ago, and while the local priest was doing his sermon, he mentioned that he had seen many parishoners at the local casino here in Louisiana, and noted that he didn't see any great problem with people gambling as long as they "KNEW WHEN TO STOP!") Why does there seem to be so many variations of beliefs even in the Priesthood? What gave that man the right to make that comment when his very spirit should have told him the opposite? Just a few questions that need answers for my part. Please note that I'm still a practicing Catholic, but when I hear sermons like this, and I have heard quite a few that bother my spirit, I simply walk out and go home; open my Bible and Pray alone!

Blessings

Cajunboy

Hey Cajunboy,

Wow, that's a lot of questions in one post. I'll do my best to address them all. Most of them have been discussed in detail in this thread, so I'll keep it brief.

RE: KJV

Not even all(most?) Protestants agree that the KJV is the best Bible translation. Nevertheless, the RCC did not add books to the Bible. The Catholic Bible contains all the books included in the Canon until Martin Luther tossed a few out during the Reformation. My Bible is complete and is the version used by the Church for over 1500 years. The KJV is missing a few books.

RE: Praying to saints

The RCC doesn't point to a single Bible verse to discern doctrines and practices. The Church looks at what the Bible teaches in context and considers the whole picture. So, to explain why the Church follows certain practices is not as easy at simply citing a passage. After all, we've had 2,000 years to study Scripture and Tradition.

Here's the short answer:

*We are encouraged to pray for each other. (Rom 15:30; Col 4:3; I Thess 5:25; 2 Thess1:11; 2 Thess 3:1; Eph 6: 18-19

*Saints in heaven are not dead, but alive in the Presence of God (Mk 12: 26-27; Mk 9:4; Lk 23:43; Rev 6: 9-11; Rom 8:35)

* Saints are aware of our battle here on earth ( Heb 12:1, REv 20:4)

So, it logically follows that we can ask saints to intercede/pray for us.

RE: Latin Mass, no meat on Fridays, etc.

There is a difference between dogma and Church rules/practices. When the Church puts forth dogma/doctrine it is infallible and cannot be changed. Rules/practices are not declared infallible and are sometimes changed or amended to adapt to the customs, language, etc. of the people.

RE: what leads people away from the RCC

What I have seen in fallen away Catholics is not so much that they find rule changes problematic. Most that I know left the Church because they did not like the discipline required ( attending Mass, Sacraments, etc.) and/or they were divorced and not able to re-marry in the Church. Being Catholic requires obedience and submission---we humans don't take well to that.

RE: not reading the Bible

You are right. The RCC did carry this too far. It began as a way to protect the faithful from the many heretical translations of the Bible that were circulating at the time. However, that restriction should have been lifted long before Vatican II, which rectified that situation and once again encouraged the faithful to read and study Sacred Scripture.

RE: Mary

Yep. Some Catholics do carry this too far. However, the RCC does teach that Mary is our spiritual mother, given to the Church ( in the person of John) at the foot of the Cross. We understand that God chose to send the Saviour into the world thru Mary and continues to use her to bless her children; much as God works through each of us to bless one another.

RE: casino

Not sure if the Church has hard and fast rules on that one??? From what I've read here, Protestants do not agree on this issue.

But, if your parish priest does not seem to be in line with RCC teaching talk to him about it. If you are not satisfied with his answers, report it to your bishop and find yourself another Catholic Church.

RE: "I'm a practicing Catholic

Don't look to flawed humans for examples of what it means to be Catholic. Get yourself a copy of the Catechism (you can find it easily on-line by Googling "Catechism of the Catholic Church"; read the Vatican II docs; read anything by Scott Hahn. Learn what doctrines the Church teaches and WHY. Then prayerfully consider the fullness of truth found in the RCC.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Guest Biblicist]

Dear Fiosh,

You have managed to answer these questions in relative calm. Which I commend you for.

What does the Catholic church teach about salvation? What do they say is required for admittance to the Kingdom of Heaven?

In His Mighty Grip,

Bib

[Live4Eternity]

I have a couple questions if you would be so kind to answer ...

how come, if I'm not a Catholic, I cannot participate in communion?

I went to a Catholic service, midnight mass for Easter with my wife's side of the family (we are both Christian). It came time for communion and we were told not to participate. The reasons were:

1 - we were not Catholic

2 - we have not been to the coffesion booth.

This didn't make much sense to me because I'm sure of my relationship with Christ.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second question.

How come Catholics pary to deceised catholics or saints? I've been told the reason is:

1 - they're not actually dead since we are 'alive in Christ'

But the bible teaches that we 'sleep' in our graves. Please explain.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Third.

Purgatory.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fourth.

Penance.

Lol, I hope I didn't flood you with too much my friend! lol.

Thanks for helping.

God bless!

High live4eternity, you would not be invited to join in our communion either, and we are not a Catholic Congregation. The reason though is the same, and that is that total agreement and belief about communion and what is actually happening must be present to join as one complete Body in Unity during communion as is called for in scripture. Not that you are not saved nor are not Christian. But Catholics and some Protestant groups such as my congregation believe that in communion you receive the blood of Christ and the Body of Christ, His physical presence is actually there among the elements, this is a very literal reading of scripture. If you believed that you would seek to become a Catholic or in my case seek to join our Lutheran Synod. The bible says that we are not to partake of the Body and Blood in an unworthy manner or in a manner where we are not prepared. To be prepared you must agree with what is going on during communion, you must understand it, if you have an intrinsically different understanding of communion; you should not partake of it with those who do not have the same understanding. This is actually quite serious, scripture says that you may become physically ill by taking communion in an unworthy manner, it is serious business for us, and as well it should be.

Catholics have a view that to receive communion you should be in a state of grace, meaning that you should have gone to confession and asked forgiveness for your sins prior to taking communion, for them that is what being prepared means.

So don't take it as a diss, I doubt you agree with what is going on during a Catholic Mass and communion, and thus for your own good just in general it is a bad idea to take part in things we don't agree with, particularly when it comes to spiritual things.

Fiosh is that about right?

Thanks for your reply... I just think it's rediculious...

Don't you know that what we do in our lives at home is no different that what we do in the church 'building'? If you believe that the elements become the actual blood and flesh of Jesus, you're allowed to believe what ever you want. But your interpretation of that scripture isn't the final. What is the bread of life? It's Jesus. How do we participate in communion? It's by eating of the bread and drinking of the blood. Remember when Jesus said that He is the bread of heaven, that whoever believes in Him will never hunger? It's all about faith and who you take part in faith with. I can agreeably dissagree with you on the interpretation of communion, but I cannot agree that just because you have your interpretation, excludes me from communion in the same vacinity that you're worshiping in... it's a matter of the heart.

But why would you want to take part in a serious sacred act that you don't believe in? You see we can't play at this, if you don't believe that Christ's Body is present, that is fine, but you should not pretend that you do believe that. For you to take communion at a Catholic mass is like lying to God and doing it at Church!. You see when you voluntarily take communion with any congregation, you are standing up public ally and saying, this is what I believe, I am in UNITY with this group, this is part of what communion is. So if you are in total unity with Catholics, then indeed you should not be denied, but if you are not and you are comfortable with what you believe you should not desire to take part in this Sacrament with Catholics. We believe the elements become the actual Body of Christ because this is what scripture says, very directly. Scripture also says that those who receive the elements without discerning the Body are in danger. I think believing whatever you want is actually something that whatever you think about Catholics is not something that they do.

I believe in the Real Presence of Christ in communion, and I still would not and do not take communion at Catholic Churches. Not that I would be stopped, but because I am not in unity with their belief's. For example would you take communion with Mormons (I don't know if they even have communion), and say well it is just about the heart so I can do what I want and not worry about it?

We're Christians right? If we have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, we're Christians. THere's no middle ground.

Question: Would Jesus prevent me and you together from taking communion with Him?

[MeCajunboy]

Greetings brothers and sisters in Christ,

My intent with this thread is NOT to proselytize or convert.

Simply put, I wish to offer accurate information concerning the teaching of the RCC in order to promote understanding.

Many times here at WB I've seen gross misrepresentations of what I supposedly believe as a Catholic Christian.

I certainly can understand that many of you disagree with the RCC, and I respect your opinion. But I would at least like to offer you the opportunity to disagree with the actual doctrines of the RCC and not what others claim them to be.

All resident Catholics are invited to respond to the questions. But, I would ask several things:

1. NO personal OPINIONS. Respond with verifiable info from the Catechism, Vatican II docs, Early Church Fathers and other approved RCC sources.

2. NO apologetics. I refuse to argue "right or wrong" on this thread. If anyone desires to discuss any particular doctrine, start a new thread and I'll gladly meet you there.

3. NO bashing from either side. Can we keep it friendly?

I will ask the mods to delete any post from either "camp", including my own, that is not presented in a Christian manner.

I have no ulterior motive. Jesus prayed that we all be one. It truly saddens me that we are often so far apart. Yet, I will not compromise what I believe; and I don't expect you do compromise your beliefs. But maybe we can come to at least recognize that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, trying to follow and serve Him with sincere hearts.

If the mods won't allow this discussion, I'll respect that. I only ask that they prayerfully consider it, as I have done.

So..............

Go ahead, ask any question you like about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches.

Peace,

Fiosh

Where and when did we acquire the extra books of the Bible that the KJV Bible does not carry and other denominations do not seem to agree with or folloow?

Where in the KJV Bible are we told to pray to other saints, as well as The Lord God through Jesus Christ? Where we required to do our Roman Catholic Mass in Latin in earlier years and why? And why did that change if we were required so? Same with not eating meats on Friday? Was it Law and Why did it change...There are probably many more that you remember that I don't but these are the things that have led many Roman Catholics away or partly from the Church...As I know that our church as provided as much good for our faith and our world that many are not aware of, I am grateful for those things. But you must admit, much of our religion was considered Taboo, to some degree in the ways that they taught. (Ex: We were not encouraged to study the KJV Bible until recent years , when the church finally realized that far too many were doing it on their own. ) (The Catholic Church seems to put more emphasis in the Blessed Virgin Mary for prayertime than it does to the Lord God himself?) We all need to realize that this is not proper. I do realize that we need to give recognition to Mary for her works and obedience, but in any given church one might find more statues and emphasis on Mary and other saints than The Lord God himself.....( I attended a mass several years ago, and while the local priest was doing his sermon, he mentioned that he had seen many parishoners at the local casino here in Louisiana, and noted that he didn't see any great problem with people gambling as long as they "KNEW WHEN TO STOP!") Why does there seem to be so many variations of beliefs even in the Priesthood? What gave that man the right to make that comment when his very spirit should have told him the opposite? Just a few questions that need answers for my part. Please note that I'm still a practicing Catholic, but when I hear sermons like this, and I have heard quite a few that bother my spirit, I simply walk out and go home; open my Bible and Pray alone!

Blessings

Cajunboy

Hey Cajunboy,

Wow, that's a lot of questions in one post. I'll do my best to address them all. Most of them have been discussed in detail in this thread, so I'll keep it brief.

RE: KJV

Not even all(most?) Protestants agree that the KJV is the best Bible translation. Nevertheless, the RCC did not add books to the Bible. The Catholic Bible contains all the books included in the Canon until Martin Luther tossed a few out during the Reformation. My Bible is complete and is the version used by the Church for over 1500 years. The KJV is missing a few books.

RE: Praying to saints

The RCC doesn't point to a single Bible verse to discern doctrines and practices. The Church looks at what the Bible teaches in context and considers the whole picture. So, to explain why the Church follows certain practices is not as easy at simply citing a passage. After all, we've had 2,000 years to study Scripture and Tradition.

Here's the short answer:

*We are encouraged to pray for each other. (Rom 15:30; Col 4:3; I Thess 5:25; 2 Thess1:11; 2 Thess 3:1; Eph 6: 18-19

*Saints in heaven are not dead, but alive in the Presence of God (Mk 12: 26-27; Mk 9:4; Lk 23:43; Rev 6: 9-11; Rom 8:35)

* Saints are aware of our battle here on earth ( Heb 12:1, REv 20:4)

So, it logically follows that we can ask saints to intercede/pray for us.

RE: Latin Mass, no meat on Fridays, etc.

There is a difference between dogma and Church rules/practices. When the Church puts forth dogma/doctrine it is infallible and cannot be changed. Rules/practices are not declared infallible and are sometimes changed or amended to adapt to the customs, language, etc. of the people.

RE: what leads people away from the RCC

What I have seen in fallen away Catholics is not so much that they find rule changes problematic. Most that I know left the Church because they did not like the discipline required ( attending Mass, Sacraments, etc.) and/or they were divorced and not able to re-marry in the Church. Being Catholic requires obedience and submission---we humans don't take well to that.

RE: not reading the Bible

You are right. The RCC did carry this too far. It began as a way to protect the faithful from the many heretical translations of the Bible that were circulating at the time. However, that restriction should have been lifted long before Vatican II, which rectified that situation and once again encouraged the faithful to read and study Sacred Scripture.

RE: Mary

Yep. Some Catholics do carry this too far. However, the RCC does teach that Mary is our spiritual mother, given to the Church ( in the person of John) at the foot of the Cross. We understand that God chose to send the Saviour into the world thru Mary and continues to use her to bless her children; much as God works through each of us to bless one another.

RE: casino

Not sure if the Church has hard and fast rules on that one??? From what I've read here, Protestants do not agree on this issue.

But, if your parish priest does not seem to be in line with RCC teaching talk to him about it. If you are not satisfied with his answers, report it to your bishop and find yourself another Catholic Church.

RE: "I'm a practicing Catholic

Don't look to flawed humans for examples of what it means to be Catholic. Get yourself a copy of the Catechism (you can find it easily on-line by Googling "Catechism of the Catholic Church"; read the Vatican II docs; read anything by Scott Hahn. Learn what doctrines the Church teaches and WHY. Then prayerfully consider the fullness of truth found in the RCC.

Peace,

Fiosh

Merry Christmas Fiosh,

While I do take time each week to reverence God in my local Catholic Church, and I do recognize that even "Priests" are men, and are responsible to a "Higher authority," I do not place my faith in mere MAN! If you or anyone else plants good seed, I pray on your words. Some I take in and others are dismissed. We all have to go where God leads us. He has a purpose for everything. I knew God took me under his protection since I was a very young child, and now in my mid 50's. And you can hear right and wrong words from nearly everyone. Some intentional ; most not. But our main souce should be from God first and formost. He will tell you when you are not following proper doctrine. I am very close to HIM at this time in my life, and I am please with knowing that HE protects me from satan's attacks , especially the more severe ones. What I try to do is "stay in the word" and close to The Lord, by talking with HIM throughout the day . I know it keeps me close to HIM and I view HIM as being happy for my actions, and I know that I AM , as well. I was not always this way, and for many years of believing as you, I waivered with God and was not happy with my walk with HIM. NOW I HAVE HIS PEACE, AND IT SHOWS BY HOW I LIVE! If priests and other religious leaders are not adhering to doctrine of the Catholic Chruch, I can only guess they they too are having some problems accepting it all. And I DO realize that they are as human as we are and have a more strict code of conduct than most of us. But I don't think it is satan alone who is guiding man to these ideas and away from the church. Many are searching for MORE from their beliefs and are being convicted by their spirits, just as I am. AND THAT IS GOOD IF IT RAISES GOD!

Blessings

Cajunboy

[kat8585]

How could the Catholic church presume to have the authority to change the very word of God, by changing the Sabbath from the 7th day to the first? The Catholic Mirror, for the whole month of Sept. 1893, boldly proclaims that from Genesis to Revelation, the 7th day Sabbath is upheld with no change. It even chastises Protestants who observe Sunday. Yet The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine - 1946, says that Saturday is the Sabbath, and when asked why we observe Sunday, says "the Catholic church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."

You have been misinformed, sister kat---probably by anti-Catholic tracts or websites. Have you actually read the Catholic Mirror article?

Catholics keep holy the "Lord's day"(Sunday), as the Church has been doing since the beginning.

The Sabbath recalls creation---"therefore God blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it" Ex 20:11. Then, Jesus rose from the dead on the "first day of the week"(Matt 28:1), ushering in the new creation. Early Christians began to worship on "the Lord's day", or Sunday. The Catholic Church did not invent the practice, it simply follows the precedent set in the New Testament and the early Church.

Peace,

Fiosh

Yes, I've read the entire Catholic Mirror article. I have it here in font of me. Sept. 2, 9, 16. and 23. Are you denying that these, and the quote from the Catechism, are true Catholic statements?

You are also, saying that the Catholic dhurch follows tradition as well as the Bible if you are saying that "Catholics keep holy the Lord's day, Sunday, as the church has been doing since the beginning." Sunday keeping came gradually. In fact, both days were kept for several centuries in early Christian history.

Why is Sunday "the Lord's day"? Where in Scripture does it say that the first day is the Lord's day, and that we should keep it for that reason?

I'm still waiting...

[Live4Eternity]

RE: Praying to saints

The RCC doesn't point to a single Bible verse to discern doctrines and practices. The Church looks at what the Bible teaches in context and considers the whole picture. So, to explain why the Church follows certain practices is not as easy at simply citing a passage. After all, we've had 2,000 years to study Scripture and Tradition.

Here's the short answer:

*We are encouraged to pray for each other. (Rom 15:30; Col 4:3; I Thess 5:25; 2 Thess1:11; 2 Thess 3:1; Eph 6: 18-19

*Saints in heaven are not dead, but alive in the Presence of God (Mk 12: 26-27; Mk 9:4; Lk 23:43; Rev 6: 9-11; Rom 8:35)

* Saints are aware of our battle here on earth ( Heb 12:1, REv 20:4)

So, it logically follows that we can ask saints to intercede/pray for us.

Peace,

Fiosh

Not really. It does, however, logically follow that they are alive in the presense of God. No where in the Scriptures does it suggest that we here on earth can communicate with anyone who is not alive in the flesh here on earth. There's only one that is still alive that we can communicate with in a biblical manner: Jesus. He rose in physical, fleshly form. He's the only one.

Also, there's the penance question. How come Catholicism teaches penance (sp?)? (I'm still waiting for the answer)

[Fiosh]

How could the Catholic church presume to have the authority to change the very word of God, by changing the Sabbath from the 7th day to the first? The Catholic Mirror, for the whole month of Sept. 1893, boldly proclaims that from Genesis to Revelation, the 7th day Sabbath is upheld with no change. It even chastises Protestants who observe Sunday. Yet The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine - 1946, says that Saturday is the Sabbath, and when asked why we observe Sunday, says "the Catholic church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."

You have been misinformed, sister kat---probably by anti-Catholic tracts or websites. Have you actually read the Catholic Mirror article?

Catholics keep holy the "Lord's day"(Sunday), as the Church has been doing since the beginning.

The Sabbath recalls creation---"therefore God blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it" Ex 20:11. Then, Jesus rose from the dead on the "first day of the week"(Matt 28:1), ushering in the new creation. Early Christians began to worship on "the Lord's day", or Sunday. The Catholic Church did not invent the practice, it simply follows the precedent set in the New Testament and the early Church.

Peace,

Fiosh

Yes, I've read the entire Catholic Mirror article. I have it here in font of me. Sept. 2, 9, 16. and 23. Are you denying that these, and the quote from the Catechism, are true Catholic statements?

You are also, saying that the Catholic dhurch follows tradition as well as the Bible if you are saying that "Catholics keep holy the Lord's day, Sunday, as the church has been doing since the beginning." Sunday keeping came gradually. In fact, both days were kept for several centuries in early Christian history.

Why is Sunday "the Lord's day"? Where in Scripture does it say that the first day is the Lord's day, and that we should keep it for that reason?

RE: Catholic Mirror

I can't comment on something I haven't read. Can I find those articles on line?

Why do you say: "both days were kept for several centuries in early Christian history" ? On what do you base this assumption?

Are you a Seventh Day Adventist? I ask because the false belief that the RCC changed the Sabbath to Sunday is one of their teachings.

RE: "Why is Sunday "the Lord's day"? Where in Scripture does it say that the first day is the Lord's day, and that we should keep it for that reason?"

Compare:

Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mar 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jhn 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jhn 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.

WITH:

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

The Bible does not waste words. They are repeated for emphasis.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Guest liarsandmartyrs]

SORRY! SISTER

[Fiosh]

I was wondering............

why is it so difficult for some to accept the perpetual virginity of Mary? A careful reading of Luke 1: 30-35 clearly indicates that Mary had no intention of having relations with a man.

Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Note a few things:

1. The angel is using the future tense when he tells Mary she will conceive. Why would that bring forth a question if she intended to sleep with Joseph?

2. Mary's response indicates that she is puzzled about how this will come about since she will not have relations.

3. Mary conceives by the Holy Spirit; would it be holy for her to then conceive in that same womb by someone else?

Peace,

Fiosh

Doesn't anyone want to take a shot at this????

Okay, let's take this step by step:

1. The angel is using the future tense when he tells Mary she will conceive. Why would that bring forth a question if she intended to sleep with Joseph?

It's sort of like if i was to tell you that "Thou shalt kill your sister" Even if you were planning on some time in the future to buy a rifle for hunting, you would still have doubt believing this statement. One might even question it.

Bad analogy. It is not a normal thing for me to shoot my sister. (most days anyway )

It is perfectly natural for a young woman about to be married to expect to conceive and bear a child.

2. Mary's response indicates that she is puzzled about how this will come about since she will not have relations.

Completely skewed, she is puzzled about this because she has not had relations, note the present tense of "seeing I know not a man?" She does not say "seeing i will not know a man"

It is perfectly feasible that she would question the angel telling her she will have a baby knowing herself that she has not had sex.

I suppose we could argue this one back and forth all day and night. Fact is, the angel uses the future tense. So, regardless of how she responds, why should Mary be puzzled?

3. Mary conceives by the Holy Spirit; would it be holy for her to then conceive in that same womb by someone else?

First of all, i would not see how it is unholy as long as the two are married, but second of all NOBODY (excluding Jesus) is perfect, not even her.

This third point is just me thinking out loud---I'm not really sure. But it just doesn't seem right for Mary to conceive and bear Joseph's children from the same womb that conceived Jesus, by the power of the Holy Spirit, and gave birth to Him.

So yeah i would argue over this all night long, however i believe Jesus will transform your mind when you are ready. If after everybody debating all this with you and trying to help you out, you still cannot see it, well we have planted the seeds, Jesus will harvest.

I am very secure in my beliefs as they are based on the teaching authority given to the Chirch by Jesus Himself. I know that one day, if you are open to the promptings of the Holy Spirit, you will come to know that Mary was "ever-virgin". If not, you may ask her yourself when you meet in the Presence of her only Son.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Floatingaxe]

I think somehow you will notice that Mary will be surrounded with her many offspring and descendants--you won't get near her! To me, it is the religious mind that cannot believe that Mary's womb was fertile for other children. Why wouldn't God allow her to be blessed with children with Joseph? It is a command that we be fruitful and multiply. Why not Mary and why not Joseph? Was there something wrong with Joseph that he would be forced to be childless?

I have given the scripture before about Mary's other children. I will not waste it here, as you seem bent on misinterpretation through rose-coloured religious glasses.