5 Point Calvanism

[botticelli]

My advice is test the T as hard as you can against God's word. if you take that down the whole thing goes

[LadyRaven]

By the way DAISY stands for

D iminshed Depravity

A brogated Election

I mpersonal Atonement

S endentary Grace

Y ieldable Justification

I think I am probably half way between a TULIP and a DAISY, but I won't know for sure until I have had a chance to examine the various doctrines more closely. Thanks so much for your input!!

Seeking Sue

There are very few that would likely be 100 percent either way. I lean heavily towards Tulip, but would not claim to agree entirely. I don't know why there is this need to base one's beliefs on any of the reformers. What is wrong with simply being Bible believing? Listen to what the Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1:12,13

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I have never understood this need to be associated with Calvin, Wesley, Luther or anyone else.

There is probably no need to be identified with the individuals. What is probably more necessary is to understand what you believe in terms of the questions their theologies raise.

The use of these titles is merely easier than giving a a paragraph full of theological terms every time someone asks for clarification of your personal belief system. I believe in a certain doctrine that a few of these theological types taught because I am convinced of their truth, not due to the guy's name or credentials.

[speckles]

My advice is test the T as hard as you can against God's word. if you take that down the whole thing goes

I believe in the T, the U and the P, but not the L and the I, I think they are exaggerations.

[EricH]

My advice is test the T as hard as you can against God's word. if you take that down the whole thing goes

I would encourage you to do 2 things:

1. First understand each concept as it is defined by those who hold the position (not those who are attacking it)

2. Then see if each concept as defined by those who hold it stands up to the scrutiny of scripture

[Neopatriarch]

Sue,

In terms of the disagreement between Calvinist and Arminian theologians regarding the interaction between God's sovereignty and human freedom, an excellent book is Predestination and Free Will: Four Views of Divine Sovereignty and Human Freedom

It it 4 believing scholars from all points on the spectrum discuss the issues:

John Feinberg defends the "God ordains all things" position.

Norman Geisler defends the "God knows all things" position.

Bruce Reichenbach defends the "God limits His power" position.

Clark Pinoock defends the "God limits His knowledge" position.

There are four chapters. In each chapter one schalar presents his view, then the others interact with it.

It is available for around 11.00 on Amazon. The editors are David and Randall Basinger and it is published by IVP

It's also good to look at what some of the older theologians had to say.

Check out:

The Death of Death: in the Death of Jesus Christ by John Owen

The Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther

Reformed Doctrine of Predestination by Loraine Boettner

But honestly, much of the debate seems to revolve around the question of free will. Whether you believe in libertarian free will, soft determinism, compatibilism or incompatibilism goes a long way toward determining (can I use that word?) whether or not you accept Calvinism or Arminianism or something in between.

On that question, I thought The Metaphysics of Free Will: An Essay on Control by John Martin Fischer was enlightening but it wasn't light reading.

Personally, I have to join John Piper in his "seven point Calvinism".

[speckles]

Personally, I have to join John Piper in his "seven point Calvinism".

Seven points ??

Weren't five enough?

What happens to Tulip, what does it become then?

[botticelli]

My advice is test the T as hard as you can against God's word. if you take that down the whole thing goes

I believe in the T, the U and the P, but not the L and the I, I think they are exaggerations.

"Total Depravity:

Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.

The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man

[Neopatriarch]

Personally, I have to join John Piper in his "seven point Calvinism".

Seven points ??

Weren't five enough?

What happens to Tulip, what does it become then?

What does John Piper mean when he says that he is a seven-point Calvinist?

[LadyRaven]

OK, I guess I'm a seven point calvinist.

[EricH]

Personally, I have to join John Piper in his "seven point Calvinism".

Seven points ??

Weren't five enough?

What happens to Tulip, what does it become then?

What does John Piper mean when he says that he is a seven-point Calvinist?

Thanks for the link