Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[spiritman]

Okay if i'm sinning and I die while sinning what then? You have no time to repent and you are still in sin. It says in revelations that no sin will enter the gates thereof.

Does not the Lord have control over when a man dies??

Revelation 1:18 (NLT)

18 I am the living one. I died, but look

[spiritman]

So Card,

Now I have a question for you. Is Peter Jesus's disciple in Hell? And if so why not? he denied the Lord 3 times. Matthew 26:69-75: Meanwhile, as Peter was sitting outside in the courtyard, a servant girl came over and said to him, " You were one of those with Jesus the Galilean". verse 70: But Peter denied it in front of everyone. "I don't know what you are talking about," he said. verse 71: Later, out by the gate, another servant girl noticed him and said to those standing around, "This man was with Jesus of Nazareth." verse 72: Again Peter denied it, this time with an oath. "I don't even know the man, "he said. 73: A little later some other bystanders came over to him and said, "You must be one of them; we can tell by your Galilean accent". verse 73: Peter said " I swear by God, I don't know the man." And immediately the rooster crowed. verse 75: suddenly, Jesus' words flashed through Peter's mind: " before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times." And he went away, crying bitterly. NLT

It is because Peter repented that's why... I believe that if a Christian rejects Christ intentionally, and refuses to follow Christs commands on purpose, then that Christian will get his part with the wicked. but, if there is an afliction on the Christian, that is stronger than that Christian, and the Holy Spirit is doing Sanctification on that Christian, then who am I to judge the work of the Holy Spirit. For example some Christians have a hard time with smoking, why because they have been doing it for most of their lives. it's a habit. but the Holy Spirit is doing His work with them to stop the addiction.

There is no other way to explain the doctrine of Sanctification, it is the process, and work of the Holy Spirit.

[Openly Curious]

Please tell me what the "work" is that Christ is doing within us?

Perfecting His holiness in us

OC

[st. Worm]

Once saved always saved with regard to the universal forensic aspect of justification but for those who ultimately reject the faith given them freely as a gift there is no hope of repentance and therefore no salvation.

[Openly Curious]

Please tell me what the "work" is that Christ is doing within us?

Perfecting His holiness in us

OC

Please elaborate.

Why sure cardcaptor,

although I must be honest I have tried to stay out of this thread but look at me here I am.

can't decide to give you the long version or the short version well.....mmmm...... the short

He is working his divine will in us the will of the Father the Word of God being God's plans for our lives it is possible through Christ which strengthens and empowers us to fulfill the purpose of God for our lives without Christ we are unable to accomplish this in our lives but we are no longer a slave to sin and have been freed to walk in newness of life. Christ in us the hope of glory we are to let Christ live through us and die out to self so others can see Christ in our lives and Jesus was our example of how he let the Father's will be above his own will and he was submission to the Father's will even to the death of the cross. We are to walk in humility having our eye single only focused on Christ as he is the author and finisher of our faith if we remain humble. The Lord is continual working within us taking us from one level of glory to the next level of glory as we continually give our self as a living sacrifice and keep being renewed in the inward man day by day though the outward man perish. We follow righteousness as God will give us the strength to overcome in our trials and tribulations which are working in us to bring us forth as pure gold as our faith is being tested.

OC

[Openly Curious]

Once saved always saved with regard to the universal forensic aspect of justification but for those who ultimately reject the faith given them freely as a gift there is no hope of repentance and therefore no salvation.

I like that st. worm "the universal forensic aspect"

OC

[spiritman]

Card,

We are in full agreement. I would like to say that earlier you mentioned about getting the puzzle pieces together and taking the scripture as a whole.

I also believe that studying in Balance is good which you seem to have done, upon the conclusion that you posted above. One of the dangers in studying lets say just the scriptures that talk about forgiveness, is that you can leave out the other half of the puzzle. God's judgement. Yes we have a loving father in Heaven, and He forgives, but lets make sure we don't go out and live like the devil either.

Both sides of the puzzle must come together, each side of this discussion, must except the other side( as long as it's Biblical) in order to put those puzzle pieces on the table and get a full picture. For If I say, I have all the pieces to the puzzle and I lay my pieces on the table but won't let the other side lay theirs down then the puzzle can't be complete.

Now I speak to the ones who say Once saved always saved, If you think that you have bought Hell insurance, no way. God will give those that have turned away from Him their part with the wicked. Matthew 22:8-14 : Then saith He to His servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. verse 9: Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. verse10: So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. verse 11: And when the king came in to see the guests, He saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:verse12: And He saith unto him, friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. verse 13: Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. verse 14: For many are called, but few are chosen.

As some of you I'm sure know, The wedding garment represents, the Christian who has put on Christs rightousness, the Sanctified Christian. The man without the wedding garment represents the Hypocrites, people who profess to be Christians but don't put on the Rightousness of Christ, and Sanctification of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 25:1-6: Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. verse 2. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. verse 3: they that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: verse 4:But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. verse 5. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. verse 6. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him. verse 7. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. verse 8: And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. verse 9: But the wise answered, saying, not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. verse 10: And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with Him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Verse 11: Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. verse 12: But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. verse 13: Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

If there are any of us here that are professing Christ yet living contrary to His message, I say to you Repent of this, and come home to Him, For He is mercyful, and good.

The five foolish virgins represent those that have fallen asleep, and grown cold in their walk with Christ. they are hypocrites. The five wise virgins are those who, continue to strive to improve their relationship with Christ, they( the wise virgins) are watching for the Lords return, and living like it could be in the next second.

Do this any you shall live...

[larryt]

That's the point. Christ is not doing the conforming or transforming. We are doing it with Christ's and the H.S. help.

It is already done complete in Christ.

I HAVE already been raised in Christ.

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Col 3:1

[Thaddaeus]

larryt,

Do you really think you can contribute to the work of Christ?

this is exactly where you are missing the entire meaning of salvation.

this whole discussion has nothing to do with the Work of Christ specifically. The Work of Christ restored mankind, enabled mankind, made mankind acceptable to God TO HAVE UNION AND COMMUNION . We were saved from the fall to be restored with the right and ability to believe and to enter into a covenant with Him and to work with Him as we were created to do.

Christ is not saving us from union and/or communion. He saved us TO HAVE communion and union, freely, without force, as He had created Adam and all of mankind to exercise.

1John 3 in context is not talking about works. It is talking about evidence.

Same thing. Faith to be valid must have evidence. The evidence gets us even more faith, strenghtens our faith. It is all about works. But this has nothing to do with works of the LAW. It has nothing to do with the Work of Christ on the Cross.

This is how we know true believers. They aren't sinning the way they were before the new birth.

Yes, but the reality is that many do not hold to this belief or faith. They do not endure, thus the fallacy of the topic of this thread.

This passage is talking about evidence not works salvation.

Yes, evidence which is proof of faith. If not works, not faith. Many have produced good fruit for many years. Then they fell away and the obvious is also true, they exhibit the fruits of the devil. Man is free, was created free and nothing in scripture departs from that teaching from beginning to end. We will stand in judgment for what we do (did), so it was with Adam in the beginning. It was his act of disobedience, loss of faith in God, that caused the fall.

If he was able to sin yet not possessing a fallen nature, how much more easily is it for us to sin, with a fallen nature? Both having a free will, both having been created in God's Image. Both created to do very specific work with God for which man was originially created.

Sin or the fall did not change one iota the purpose of man's creation.

Man was created to work with God in this created order. He was commissioned to be a prophet, priest and king over the physical realm of God's creation. He bore the imprint of His Creator.

The fall separated man from God. Man could not be in union with God, not because it was impossible, but because it had no eternal quality, it would only last in this lifetime. Death would reign eternally. Mankind would be destroyed. God created man to be immortal, to live eternally, with Him, to share in His Divine nature, to participate with Him in all things.

This is what we as believers are doing now. We have been saved from the Fall, in order to do the work described above.

Christ did not come to substitute to do all that man was created to do. Christ is not doing anything apart from what man was created to perform with God. God wanted man to do it freely. Thus the condition of choice. We have a commandment to observe. To believe or not to believe. We can make the choice a hundred times but not being IN Christ at any time would necessarily jeapardize your eternal life with Christ. See the foolish virgins.

Edited November 11, 2006 by Thaddaeus

[Thaddaeus]

Cardcaptor,

And they all said, Amen, Amen, Amen.