Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[Arthur Durnan]

Join me in praising God for His wonderful everlasting salvation purchased at such great cost on Mount Calvary 2000-years ago. We are saved for time & eternity, "sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption," and gloriously "in the heavenlies with Christ." And one day "We shall be like Him, for we'll see Him as He is." GLORY, GLORY, CLEAR THE ROAD!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Openly Curious]

Do you mean RITE of atonement? Because it is not a right.

Thats not what I meant, I'll re-phrase the last question to avoid confusion.

3 questions...

• 1: What was Yom Kippur for? (Google it if you are unfamiliar)
  
  2: Why did God allow for the atonement of sin (Yom Kippur) consistently throughout the Old Testament?
  
  3: Where is it written in scripture that God removed continuos atonement (Yom Kippur) by the sacrifice of Christ?
  

#1. yom kippur was dealing with the day of atonement under the old covenant found in Leviticus 16; 23:26-32; and Numbers 29:7-11

#2. the day of atonement was to be done in the 7th month on the 10th day of that month being Tishri on the Jewish calendar and it was during--September/October. This was a once a year an annual atonement day to make atonement for the sins of the priests, the sins of the people and also for the tabernacle or temple.

#3. You can find in Hebrews 9 where the day of atonement found it's ultimate fulfillment in Christ's death and crucifixion on the cross. As the day of atonement in the old testament laws that the levitical priesthood had to follow was only a picture and foreshadow that pointed us to the redeeming work of Christ Jesus and out of all the old testament types given to us there was none in my opinion that more adequately represented to us the redeeming work of Jesus that the day of atonement. As the whole burnt offering was to propitiate for sins in general and to show complete dedication and seperation unto God. And Christ certainly showed His complete dedication to the will of God the Father both on the part of God and on the part of the believers. Read

Matthew 26:39-44

Mark 14:36

Luke 22:42

Philippians 2:5-11

Romans 12:1-2

Hebrews 13:15

Hebrews 10:10--"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

As the levitical offerings of the priesthood under the first covenant according to Hebrews chapter 9 were only temporary offering to be offered up on a continual basis until the time of Christ as He became sin for us who knew no sin and offered himself once on the cross only to atone for the sins of mankind and it is through Christ shed blood that those who are lost in sin can be made clean and holy in the sight of God. As the second covenant makes us righteous within as God took our stoney heart out cutting away the foreskins of our hearts and giving us a heart of flesh to feel after Him. (Romans 2:28-29) As the blood of the bulls and goats could not make them righteous within as they still had knowledge of their sins and a guilty conscious before God because the blood of the bulls and goats couldn't change their hearts it only gave temporary relief one time a year if God accepted the sacrifice then they was forgiven.

But there was no law that was given that could bring the righteousness of God under the old covenant. For it came only in the second covenant the new testament as Christ gave Himself once on the cross doing away with the levitical sacrificial offerings under the old covenant as Christ payed the ransom price for many. As it comes through the faith of Abraham that was made by promise. The law of faith in the blood of Jesus as Christ had only go to the cross once and suffer the shame and agony as He took the sins of mankind upon Himself thus Christ was the propitiaiton for sin the sacrifice the only sacrifice that was perfect and that would finally appease the wrath of God so that we could be reconciled in our relationship with Christ. Which is a continual walk daily and not a fly by night relationship as we are to present ourselves to God as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable to God which is our "reasonable service" and rightfully so in light of what Christ did on our behalf as Christ is our example of following the will of God which is the word of God and his commandments. As Jesus said if you love me then you will keep my commandments as Jesus fulfilled the law of the first covenant for without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins as Christ made us the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. What the first covenant could not ever do but could only point us unto Christ who was the yom kippur the atoning sacrifice as Christ came as he was the promised seed of Abraham that would be born and Christ thus fulfilled the law doing away with the levitical priesthood and the sacrificial and ceremonial system of the levitical priesthood and Christ is now our high priest.

OC

So in other words...Salvation based on works and not faith.

I think the point is clear, the moment you begin to determine that works justifies your faith, then you have now placed yourself under the Law. "Fly by Night" is for unbelievers...not believers. Following the position that a Christian believer can lose their salvation is following in the footsteps of Cain and attempting to define one's terms for atonement, the reason why God refused Cains sin offering, only a sin offering of blood was acceptable to God, anyone who believes that their works justifies their faith and ultimately defines their righteousness, walks in the footsteps of Cain, trying to set their own conditions for atonement before God.

In Christ

CJ

C.J.

I'm sorry to be so bold, but I think your statement is rediculus.

We are still under the law....just not the penalty of the law if we confess, ask forgiveness, and repent....

we still have to do it Gods way....

Cains offering wasn't accepted because he did it his own way.

If you keep the commandments, you are obeying God (his way)

If you don't, then you are rebelling...and that is what got Satan into trouble.

The works that demonstrates your faith is repentence and obeying God, not doing all kinds of good stuff to earn your way in.

OC

[TomPJr]

I'm sorry to be so bold, but I think your statement is rediculus.

We are still under the law....just not the penalty of the law if we confess, ask forgiveness, and repent....

we still have to do it Gods way....

Cains offering wasn't accepted because he did it his own way.

If you keep the commandments, you are obeying God (his way)

If you don't, then you are rebelling...and that is what got Satan into trouble.

The works that demonstrates your faith is repentence and obeying God, not doing all kinds of good stuff to earn your way in.

Tom,

This is absolutely correct. I have been trying to say this all along. When certain people look at "works" its like they think I'm trying to do things my way when all I'm trying to do is keep the commandments we are commanded to keep. I don't think that understanding sinks in.

When we walk in the works we are ordained to walk in (Eph 2:10) we are actually walking in the works we are justified by (Jas 2:24). Our purpose on this earth is to glorify God by loving him and keeping his commandments.

What we are trying to prove right now is that as Christians we have to continue in the gospel by learning of what sin really is. We we are born again we don't have full knowledge of the bible and what all of God's commandments are. There are things that I could be doing right now that are sins and would not know it if I don't have that knowledge. This is why we are told to study the word.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

What separates man and God is sin. When we were born again we were reconciled back to God and promised many things, but there are stipulations in that we have to stay away from the sins that we were forgiven for. We have to remain faithful to God in order to keep them. This is why scriptures like this -

Hebrews 10:26-29 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

If we remain faithfull to God by abiding in the doctrine of Christ (keeping commandments/works) then God will keep his promises towards us, but if I choose to go back into the world and go back into all of the sins that I was saved from then all bets are off and I don't warrent God's promises.

We all sin every day, but there is a difference between Christians who who are striving to keep the commandments verses those who are not. These commandments I say, not of the Old Law, but of the New law. The commandments of Christ. When we read where it talks about not being justified by the law it is speaking of the Old Law or else this verse would not have been written -

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

We obey Christ by keeping the New Law.

Awsome post!

I really like what you sid about striving to keep the commandments... It is not the occasional sin or stumble in which we confess and repent of, but the habitual sins that we don't try to repent of that will condemn us. Like you said we all sin...but are we really trying, and willing God to give us faith and repentence? God judges our heart and our motives. I believe that if we neglect to repent we will forfiet our salvation.

I believe that there is no new law though....It's the same ten commandments, but the ceremonial laws were done away with.

I also don't think that God will break his promises to us, but rather his promises are conditional. We must meet certain conditions in order to recieve his promises.

Many people think that salvation is un-conditional, but that is absurd.

Most of Gods promises come with a big "IF"

IF we confess & repent.....

[Openly Curious]

I'm sorry to be so bold, but I think your statement is rediculus.

We are still under the law....just not the penalty of the law if we confess, ask forgiveness, and repent....

we still have to do it Gods way....

Cains offering wasn't accepted because he did it his own way.

If you keep the commandments, you are obeying God (his way)

If you don't, then you are rebelling...and that is what got Satan into trouble.

The works that demonstrates your faith is repentence and obeying God, not doing all kinds of good stuff to earn your way in.

Tom,

This is absolutely correct. I have been trying to say this all along. When certain people look at "works" its like they think I'm trying to do things my way when all I'm trying to do is keep the commandments we are commanded to keep. I don't think that understanding sinks in.

When we walk in the works we are ordained to walk in (Eph 2:10) we are actually walking in the works we are justified by (Jas 2:24). Our purpose on this earth is to glorify God by loving him and keeping his commandments.

What we are trying to prove right now is that as Christians we have to continue in the gospel by learning of what sin really is. We we are born again we don't have full knowledge of the bible and what all of God's commandments are. There are things that I could be doing right now that are sins and would not know it if I don't have that knowledge. This is why we are told to study the word.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

What separates man and God is sin. When we were born again we were reconciled back to God and promised many things, but there are stipulations in that we have to stay away from the sins that we were forgiven for. We have to remain faithful to God in order to keep them. This is why scriptures like this -

Hebrews 10:26-29 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

If we remain faithfull to God by abiding in the doctrine of Christ (keeping commandments/works) then God will keep his promises towards us, but if I choose to go back into the world and go back into all of the sins that I was saved from then all bets are off and I don't warrent God's promises.

We all sin every day, but there is a difference between Christians who who are striving to keep the commandments verses those who are not. These commandments I say, not of the Old Law, but of the New law. The commandments of Christ. When we read where it talks about not being justified by the law it is speaking of the Old Law or else this verse would not have been written -

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

We obey Christ by keeping the New Law.

Amen Cardcaptor,

2 Peter 2:20-22 uses pretty plain speech on the matter

Numbers 15:29-30 shows that under the old covenant forgiveness was granted if one sinned in ignorance not knowing they sinned at the time but found out latter they sinned against God then that person was to bring their sacrificial offering to the priest.

But if a person sinned presumptuously or with a high hand doing his own thing instead of what the Lord commanded. The that person was to be entirely cut off from God's people and his sin would not be forgiven him because that person despised the word of the Lord and it was through the obedience of God's commands that made one clean under the old covenant. So if one despised the words of the Lord then there was no atonement for them. For even in the new covenant we are washed cleansed with the washing of the water by the word (Ephesians 5:26; John 3:5; 1 John 5)

As these scriptures relate to Hebrews 10:26-29 in which you shared in your post.

We need the word of God to know right and wrong still today and we should not despise the word of the Lord today as Christ gave His on life to give us a better covenant with better promises within it. Most people believe in water baptism and they get baptized in water as a result of that belief by faith as it is an outward sign to the word of what happened on the inside of our hearts when Christ made us a new creature. As we walked away from our old sinful lifestyles and was forgiven and now we walk in newness of life and follow the word of God for it is a lamp unto our paths as we do not return to our former lifestyles.

Because we have been washed, we have been sanctified and cleansed and set apart by the blood and work of Christ on the cross period. And now we walk by faith in the knowledge of who Christ is and we become His disciples and followers. We follow Christ not do our on things now as that is to despise the words of the Lord and then disguise it by saying one believes in salvation by works for that is not at all true. But it is ignorance that is speaking. Again I ask did you get baptized in water after your conversion because it is in the word if so then you followed after the biblical pattern. Do you pray because the Lord Jesus Christ taught us to pray then you are following the biblical pattern. As we are not to grow weary with well doing. as doing those things is right as the word gives us knowledge of right and wrong but they are not works of the law that brings the righteousness of God a changed heart for that is the work of Christ and not we ourselves but we still obey and follow the word for it is how we know how to walk pleasing in the Lord's sight and learn of God. And one should not despise the word of God and toss it aside under the guise we do not have to obey it for that is a deception of one's own heart. "The Law of FAITH"

OC

[Openly Curious]

I'm with you cardcaptor

blessings

OC

[stevehut]

Adam and Eve were not Jewish yet they looked forward for the coming of Christ. I think that they were Christians.

? !

[TomPJr]

Adam and Eve were not Jewish yet they looked forward for the coming of Christ. I think that they were Christians.

? !

Was that a question?

There was no such thing as a Jew or Israelite when God created Adam and Eve. Their was just mankind.

[stevehut]

There was no such thing as a Jew or Israelite when God created Adam and Eve. Their was just mankind.

Precisely. Nor could there be a Christian, before Christ.

Steve

[Floatingaxe]

There was no such thing as a Jew or Israelite when God created Adam and Eve. Their was just mankind.

Precisely. Nor could there be a Christian, before Christ.

Steve

I believe you could call all the OT saints Christians...Jesus was there. He made Himself known to them.

[stevehut]

Wow Tom nice response... maybe you should try reading Galatians some day, your preaching righteousness by works...

You don't think repentance is required for salvation? That's the only "work" Tom mentioned...

Steve